OMG! THE DUB! THE DUB!!!!

[Jae]

In somewhat recent dubs I've noticed that it sounds like the VAs are acutally getting to hear the line in japanese, and are placing similar vocal emphasis and inflections as the japanese did.

It's interesting. It results in characters who have similar speaking patterns, but (often), a different voice, it's strange

I'm not complaining, just commenting that it appears there is alot more effort and care put into dubs nowadays.
But I don't generally listen to them anyway, but I'm always pleased when a show has one that is considered a good one.

What I heard, I would say FMP is like that. I could likely get used to the english voices if I were to watch them, buut...

[Taurec]

Well i finally had time to listen those files ...
and it didn't sound that bad....

ok .. this is what i did, i listened to the sounds and noted down the first thing that popped in my mind.....

Gauron, i'm biased so i liked the sound of evil .. but.....
Kalinin, .. liked the accent ..
Kaname, .... the girl next door who hated me .... but then again she was cute.
Kurtz, ..... the guy next door i used to beat up. .... but not that bad ..
Mao ..... yeeeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaw ... "dukes of hazard"
Mardukas, dry .. need a drink.. worf on valium ? fits!
Sagara, .... needs getting used to ....
Shinji, ...... Harry Potter ........
Tessa,...... Minniiiihiieeehiii Mouse
but we already established she was mousey ...

Please note i didn't see the animation that goes along with it. so
don't take offence.

[blackrose]

In somewhat recent dubs I've noticed that it sounds like the VAs are acutally getting to hear the line in japanese, and are placing similar vocal emphasis and inflections as the japanese did.[

Most VA's that have spoken in the panels I've attended claim they prefer not to hear the Japanese. These guys are ACTORS and they want a chance to interpret the character themselves.

Chris Patton (Sousuke) specifically says he won't watch the subbed version before he goes into the booth. And most of the guys at the Ocean Group (who dub for Bandai, mostly) claim that they'll only go back to the Japanese if they're having trouble getting the line to match the lip flaps.

Please note i didn't see the animation that goes along with it. so don't take offence.

I wasn't offended. It's just that all too often, there are people out there that don't give the dubbed version a chance because it's THE DUB and those are never translated right, and they suck because it's not the original Japanese. And it's like, well, you know what? Maybe once upon a time there were some crummy dubs just so they could release the version to American Sat. morning cartoon hours, but the VA's I've seen on panels and such take these roles very seriously as ACTING parts. They try very hard, and should be respected for the jobs they do. Fine, if you don't like so and so's voice for a particular role, but all too often people are criticizing these guys for not sounding like the Japanese version of the character, and that's not a fair comparison.

There is always some "dub-shock" as Jae put it, and that's totally fine. I suffer it, too. But if the actor is putting the effort behind the part, and playing the part the way it should be played (and their voice doesn't sound like nails across a chalkboard *cough* Fushigi Yugi (sp?) *cough*), they can sell me on it. And ADV has sold me on the FMP dub the same way Ocean sold me on the GW dub the same way that the unlikely Funimation sold me on the Fruits Basket dub. Knight Hunters.... We won't go there. Trigun, I love the dubbed Trigun, but even though RK uses the same VAs as Trigun for most of the parts, RK's dub, in my opinion, comes and goes.

But see, I LIKE dubbed anime, particularly when the story is not necessarily set in Japan. Like GW, it's unlikely that in the future everyone would really be speaking Japanese. And so, it's not really any less viable to have them all speaking English. Perhaps more viable since more countries in the world require English to be taught in schools and adopt it as the language for foreign affairs (I'm not saying that I in any way think that this is the way it SHOULD be, only that this is the way it IS). Trigun is set on another planet. Hellsing is set in England. I'd say in that case, the dub is actually more official to the story that's being told.

Look at Enemy Behind the Gates - an American production of a story set in Russia. They're all speaking English when they theoretically should be speaking Russian. That's what some of these animes are doing, essentially. SOME of them are only in Japanese because that's who's writing the story.

At least, that's the way I look at it.

Anyway, my point is, if you know you don't like dubbed anime, then don't bother. But if you're going to give it a chance, give it a chance. And try to assess the VA's performance based on the actual JOB they do and whether or not they're playing the character the way the character should be played, instead of just comparing it with the tones of the original Japanese VA. If you don't like the voices, that's fine. I made the original post because I was trying to prepare people a bit.... If you go in with another set of expectations, you might not suffer so much "dub shock", and be able to objectively assess whether or not so and so fits the part.

It takes some getting used to, surely, and it's going to depend on the individual whether or not you WANT to get used to it. It's fine if you don't. But I think ADV did a good enough job where we should just be able to say "I prefer the sub because I like so and so's voice better" and not dog on the dub in the process.

Thanks.

Will shut up now.

Love,
Rose

[Taurec]

Oooh but you are absolutely right, .. But i can't assess the VA's performance based on 5 second snippets .... blame the canadians for that

[blackrose]

Oooh but you are absolutely right, .. But i can't assess the VA's performance based on 5 second snippets .... blame the canadians for that

Damned Canadians....

Love,
Rose

[Jae]

Most VA's that have spoken in the panels I've attended claim they prefer not to hear the Japanese. These guys are ACTORS and they want a chance to interpret the character themselves.

Really? Interesting. THe FLCL dub is almost exactly like the japanese, down to how the characters make non-word vocalizations.
I have no doubt that they used the origional track as a guide for the dub.

It sounded like there was some of that in the ep 3 dub, and I had thought most of them sounded pretty close to the japanese actors.

I understand that the dub actors are actors too, but it doesn't seem like a horrible thing to listen to the japanese to see that angle on a character, instead of possibly misinterpreting a character on only a few eps lines.

There have been some notable dub mess ups- which, honestly, are mostly always the director's fault, but still problems that could have been avoided if the first track had been heard.
Utena offers a prime example of this, and it happens to be an older dub.
I can't recall hearing about similar issues in any subs over the past 2 years or so, which is why I say it sounds like there is more care being put into the dubs.
At least the director should be listening to the j track, IMO.

[blackrose]

Really? Interesting. THe FLCL dub is almost exactly like the japanese, down to how the characters make non-word vocalizations.
I have no doubt that they used the origional track as a guide for the dub.

I can't say about that dub. I just read an interview with Chris Patton and that's what he said. And from what Scott McNeill and those at the Ocean Group have said, they don't seem to like listening to it before developing their interpretation of the character. They do occasionally listen to it as a guide esp. in regards to lip flaps, but they don't try to copy what the Japanese VAs do, is what I think they meant.

It sounded like there was some of that in the ep 3 dub, and I had thought most of them sounded pretty close to the japanese actors.

I thought that the "Japanese Pretty Girls" bit sounded so extremely similar to the Japanese track, that I wouldn't be surprised if Vic listened to it in order to do it the way he did.

There have been some notable dub mess ups- which, honestly, are mostly always the director's fault, but still problems that could have been avoided if the first track had been heard.

Oh, I understand and completely agree that there have been in the past.

I can't recall hearing about similar issues in any subs over the past 2 years or so, which is why I say it sounds like there is more care being put into the dubs.

I think that's true, but there are still some who just dog it no matter what. Gundam Wing is a really good dub, in my opinion, and in a lot of people's opinion. But there is still the "controversy" where people question the translations of certain lines and complain about voice actors in the dub.

Notably... People complain about Scott McNeil and say that he just does what he does for a paycheck. That's soooo far from the truth it's not even funny. And I didnt think he sounded like a surfer dude at all. But some people complain that he did.

As for translation.... The word fushigi means mysterious with a sense of wonder. It doesn't translate exactly to English. In a certain context, it could mean "amazing". Apparently, there were some fansubs floating around that translated ep 46 as Relena telling Heero he's "fushigi" = weird or strange. And he replies something to the effect of "Not as fushigi as you". Which, again, fansubs translated as "Not as weird/strange as you." But when the Bandai English dub came out, it was translated as "You're amazing." and Heero's reply: "I'm nothing compared to you." Which is technically a correct translation if you're trying to romanticize it just a tad.

I had a Heero x Relena fan and a Heero x Duo fan translate the section from the original Japanese, and the dubbed version was CORRECT. But others complained that the dub was trying to take away any "shounen-ai" hints due to the fact it wouldn't be acceptable on NA television.

It's like, it's a shounen anime, there'd be no shounen-ai (only in shoujo anime), AND Heero and Duo were in like 2 entire episodes together out of 49. Where did the US censors really step in?

But this is the kind of stuff that goes on. That even when a production is GOOD QUALITY, if it's not the original Japanese, it's crap. And I disagree.

[HELLFIRE]

Personal quick impressiums...
---
Gaulun - pitch seems to give me the image of a Texan saying that line, but his laugh was quite passible

Kalinin - Katyusha was right in that a Russian accent would've fit better.
Heck, get Connery, I'd bet a load of fans'd pee their pants at THAT!!

Kaname - slowly sounds like the dub VO for Ellis (Battle Arena
Toshinden), while what well... still digesting that one

Kurtz - japanese pretty girls was practically on the head, but overall
he sounded alittle more immature than he is... which may work in
the long run

Mao - sounds pretty good!

Mardukas - hmm, and an English accent might've worked, IMHO

Sagara - maybe I'm biased towards Heero's dub voice (we ALL know
the coincidences between Heero & Sagara)... sounds a bit like Trowa
to me

Shinji - overplayed the nerd-type voice.. KILL HIM!!

Tessa - makes her sound like some stuck-up rich bitch type...

Hubby says that her Japanese voice is the "f*** me" voice, apparently, so, he was disappointed in that one.

Damned Canadians...

We do aim to please



Yeah, I agree you can't tell from 5 sec snippets, and maybe I have a
MAJOR built-in bias against dubs since I went entirely to subs. My way
to tell, if I can sit thru the entire ep/series WITHOUT wanting to bash
my head against the wall/break the disc in half/book an appointment for
a full-mouth root canal sans Novocaine/generally kill myself, it think
it's a good job.

// wait a bit to find #1 FMP disc.

[Beckster]

At least now a days, I've noticed that there isn't too many speaking out like they use to about hating dubs and all dubs are evil. Once in a blue moon when I do see ppl or hear ppl do that, I just wish I could reach through the screen and wring their necks, tie them to a chair and give them a nice little talk. Its like getting a kid to eat a vegetable that they don't like but eventually they'll give it a try and either like it or make a final decision that they don't.

I've been a dub fan, mostly, well, cause its what I grew up with. When GW first aired in '00, I was intrigued by it and perhaps cause of not knowing or being exposed to the sub first is what made me fall in love with it. I later met a girl during that same summer who had all GW subbed and brought them over to watch (the parts they haven't showed on tv yet) and its funny how watching both versions, I had more of a liking to the dub but I have yet to understand why (not sure if I want to understand either as long as I'm happy).

Those rare occasions when a dub is poorly done, is what can ruin some for others but even if there is just one that irks me (seems like a few of us can't stop mentioning Knight Hunters enough), its not going to stop me from giving others a try, and thats only cause I know there are much better ones out there. Weiss Kreuz (knight hunters), I was so excited when I heard it was being dubbed but after hearing it for the first time, I think I wanted to cry. They could've done so much better with the production and casting in english but instead I felt so ripped off as a fan. Sure no one can replace the japanese cast but it just seems that Media Blasters just didn't take the time to put much effort into it. I still have yet to watch all 5 dvds (even though I've seen the series the first time around) and when I do get around to watching it, this is one of the few rare times I will have to watch it in japanese. I got as far as the 3rd dvd and noticed that Yohji's voice changed *shudders*

One thing I noticed is when the production companies switch out their VA's like what Funimation did since they got tired of going back and forth to Canada and Texas since they are based in Texas. Halfway during the Freeza saga of DBZ, I noticed the change in voices even though that character TRIED to sound like the original english voice. I had to laugh cause these newer VA's seemed like thats what they were aiming for, to sound like the previous voice just so ppl wouldn't think too much about the change that they did. I noticed it right off the bat when I heard Vegeta speak and noticed that it wasn't Brian Drummonds voice. And yes I am a VA geek.

So back for FMP!, its one of the good things that we have to look forward when it comes to dubs, the voice actors start to feel comfortable in their roles and we later will see more progression in their performance. Which is why I can't wait for more of the dvds to come out, just so I can see how in depth they have become with their parts. I mean I could go back and watch the 1st dvd over and over again just to get use to the voices but it seems to take more of an effect later on as it goes. Prime example is again, GW. The first 10 eps or so, the characters sound so stiff and robotic like but as the eps moved on, you could tell the VA's got into their roles and started to make that character more active and alive.

But hey, like they say, to each their own and we can't change if ppl want to like them or not.

[Jae]

Earlier I read BR's first lengthy post about dub appreciation. After I went back and re-read this whole thread. I was somewhat surprised by the sudden change in tone.
I went and thought about everything within it. I had planned to come back and explain that I feel that we are woefully undeserving of the passion displayed. I felt I knew where it was coming from, and was merely planning to request that we all be able to share our impressions and opinions without getting dirty about it.

Now, I'm going to say this line needs to stop now. Not the thread, but the sub/dub stuff.

The dub/sub debate has gotten quite vicious in other places, and we will not be getting into it here.
Yes, dubs frequently get quite negative comments. Some fans, in some places, are very nasty about both formats. (to the point that exremists on both side advocate dumping the other from DVDs)

But we haven't had that here. We've simply shared how we each individually feel about our inital impressions of the voice actors.
I don't see anything wrong with it.
Nobody has said the dub sucks. Or that the VAs should die. Or that fans who like the dub are stupid.

Yes, some of us have been, at worst, mildly critical.
And, it is also fair to respond to some of those criticisims within reason.

Of course we all have been tuned to the japanese version, and of course we will be making comparasions. Of course we also made comparasions to the 2 ADV logos. Some compare the cover art. New viewers will compare FMP to other series. It's natural, and dubs do not earn a special place free from the same sort of criticism everything else is subject to.

I think everybody presented their inital impressions in a fair, reasonable, non-combative manner.
Most of us have also acknowledged that our opinions are based on not having heard much, and that we may have personal biasas against dubs in general. I think it's fair.
I hope that we can all continue to do that.
Opinions both good and bad.
Opinions both well informed and ignorant (of dubbing techniques)

Vocabulary changes have not been brought into the normal posts, with the exception of one post which didn't strike me as being any sort of complaint.
I know it tends to go into general dub-defense, but it's not necessary to get worked up or upset about it here.

If, BR, you can present your positive, supportive opinions of the dub in starting this thread, then we can all post if we dis/agree, how we dis/agree, or how we each feel about the voices in general. To say 'I dont like it' is not a slam on the VA. It's not bashing dubs. Everybody who has said "I generally don't like dubs' seem to be saying that so their opinions will be considered in that light (ie, 'I'm not a dub expert. If I dont like it, it doesnt mean it's not good.')

Nobody needs to defend or justify their decisions or opinions.
And I'm going to say that I feel mildly offended that it's suggested or implied that because I don't normally like to listen to dubs, then I shouldn't even bother trying. It's permissible for me to have opinions about things I'm not an expert in, I'm sorry.

I think it's fair to post reminding us that differences between the 2 voice tracks are not only normal- it's always like that. It simply isn't possible for them to sound identical. But we are also all fans. We like what we like, and we will not always share appreciations.

I think that comments here have been very reasonable, esp considering how many of us have said we aren't normally listening to dub (not to mention how much some have wanted to hear what the dub voices sound like. That eagerness isn't to slam the english VAs.)

I apologize if this post seems harsh. I wish I could cleanly split some of these posts into a 'dub issues' thread in Gen Ani however it's too entwined with FMP refrences. I'm not sure I would want it continued period. In any case, none of us need to feel defensive or apologize for posting and sharing our opinions. And this will not turn into a defense or attack on either dubs or subs in general. This thread is for commentary and opinions of the FMP dub only.
*snicker*
I'm sure there are many immature and unreasonable fans making moronic statement and flames over at the animenation forums, if a good example is needed, which I'm sure it isn't.

Here most of us are already very familiar with the endless debate.

Any replies to this should be PMed to me privately, or taken to the forum-forum so it can be dealt with as a policy/admin issue.

[Leaf]

I just watched the english version yesterday.... Well I liked Tessa's voice I think that it suits her, Kaname's voice.. okay but I need to get used to her voice and everybody elses voice as well especially Sagara Souske's..

[Arx-7 Arbalest]

i still prefer the jap voices....

they all sound so..... "toot" in eng

[Leaf]

Yeah me too I did like their voices in Japanese better than in English.. ~.~;; I don't like Sagara's voice at all in english anyway I thought it sounded alot better in japanese...

[ZyreX]

anime is better in japanese... (atleast I think so)
to bad my japanese sucks... Must learn more..

[Jae]

[Admin] Zyrex- this isn't a sub or dub thread. It's just for commentary on the FMP dub voices.