Tsudou Make My Day (TMMD) New Novel/Dragon Mag *Spoilers*

[Weltall Elite]

that's probably what most people who watched too much "league of justice" as kids would think XD

the whole point a lot of people are missing is that a guy like leonard is doing what he's doing NOT because of revenge.. they do NOT think what they are doing is a bad thing; in fact, most terrorists believe whole heartedly that they are sacrificing for the greater good, that they are making the world better

it doesn't matter that leonard may be the smartest kid in the world, he was still just a kid when terrorists took him in, trained him, brainwashed him, and it's not much different than your parents and teachers who keep on telling you "saving lives is a noble thing", the only difference was what people told leonard instead "killing people is a noble thing" .... although i guess they'd put the idea in a much better context XD

League of Justice, eh? It usually takes three or four exchanges before people start taking shots at each other in Internet debates.

Besides, are you so sure about all that? We don't know exactly what makes Leonard tick. If Leonard thought killing people was such a "noble" thing, he wouldn't have used it against Sousuke.

In any case, Leonard may feel he's making the world a better place, but I don't think he's intending anything for the "greater good". You don't think this is about revenge? Put the pieces together. He always talks a bunch of crap about normal humans and how they're using the Whispered like him and Kaname. He wants Kaname to join him. He wants Tessa to join him. He talks a lot about how they're higher than regular people. He couldn't care less about regular people, even in his own organization. He's pissed off because a few people hunted his kind down and used them as tools. Now he lumps all people in the same group.

I think he's got his own agenda. Probably wants to create some kind of new world order where the Whispered are in charge. If nothing else, he doesn't give a damn about the greater good of anyone but the Whispered.

I sympathize with his past because it was obviously bad, but join a therapy group and get over it.

On a different note though, here's the curve ball in the story. Everyone is assuming that his mom betrayed him to Amalgam. I'm not so sure. After their parents died, Tessa says that Leonard watched over her. Later, they say that Leonard betrayed Mithril for Amalgam. I think it might have been Mithril that took Leonard. You're saying that terrorists took him in, trained him, and brainwashed him, but he left of his own free will. So whatever he did with Amalgam wasn't what he was brainwashed to do, but what he decided to do as a means of getting back at Mithril, taking over the world, whatever.

[KiLlEr]

He talks a lot about how they're higher than regular people. He couldn't care less about regular people, even in his own organization. He's pissed off because a few people hunted his kind down and used them as tools.

Sounds alot like XMen to me.

You're saying that terrorists took him in, trained him, and brainwashed him, but he left of his own free will.

Or he was saved by Mithril from the Terrorists, but he still felt used (or he was sceduced by the dark side, or was psycologically scarred and saw no difference between Mithril and the terrorists ) and escaped Mithril for Amalgam.

Or he was take from Mithril by Amalgam.

In anycase, we lack sufficient info to figure out why/how he left. But we do know enough about him to see he has an axe to grind, which is the reason he is in Amalgam. For him, Amalgam is a means to an end. A means by which he can accomplish his ultimate goal, which has yet to be officially revealed.

[ricerocket]

lol, again, back to the point i made in my previous post: what you believe is "noble" isn't necessary what the villian (or anybody else for that matter) believes, what you believe is "greater good" is also just what you believe

leonard pretty much believe that them whispered being in charge of the world is good for the world

and tha curve ball doesn't land, sorry, nobody assumed his mom betrayed him, that part is in the text of the new chapter; neither did he ever join mithril or anything else we know of besides amalgam -- read: "birth of tuatha de dannan"

by the way, i'm sorry you took offense in me mentioning justice league, it's a point as to how kids are educated (be it good or bad education) not as an insult :p

[Weltall Elite]

By definition, "greater good" typically means it's in the interest of more people than the few it would inconvenience. If his intentions benefit only the Whispered, and is not beneficial to the rest of the world, I can't really see how it could be rationalized as the greater good. Unless you mean the greater good of specifically the Whispered.

Leonard was NEVER part of Mithril? I'm pretty sure he was. I just can't remember where and in which novel I read that.

And what do you mean nobody assumes his mom betrayed him? Didn't HE assume his mom betrayed him? Wasn't that what this whole betrayal thing was about?

Anyway... I suppose until we get some solid facts or someone has the spare time (and cares enough) to do some back research, this issue remains unresolved.

[JelliCelli]

Wasn't it even mentioned (somewhat) in TSR that Leonard was in Mithril? I remember an ep. where Gen. Armidt(?) was talking to Tessa after a brutal meeting and quipped, "If only Leonard were still here..." or something akin to that.

[ricerocket]

he was never in mithril, that general guy said that because he served the U.S. military with leonard and tessa's father, so he meant it as "if leonard was still with you (tessa) as a family"

his mother did betray him, i don't have to argue with you about this point because you'll read the text if you really cared

all kings in the past believed they ruled their lands for the greater good of their people, same thing here

[Pyrite]

@Jellicelli/ricerocket: I'm looking through ODBD-1a, and Leonard is indeed spoken of, although whether he was in Mithril at any point isn't mentioned. But if we assume that he was responsible for Bani's death (implied but poorly substantiated), he might have been in Mithril for a time.

@Weltall/ricerocket: Let's not fling mud all over the damn place, please.

For the record, Leonard doesn't think killing people is noble or anything, he just ranks it as being less serious than being betrayed by friends and family. That's confirmed from the chapter.

With regards to "the greater good", I'm not sure that line of argument is defensible. I've been tossing around the "dirty humans" line quite a bit, and Leonard, with this sort of outlook, definitely wouldn't do things to benefit lower lifeforms if there wasn't anything in it for him. But it's not necessarily out of revenge either - not consciously, at least. Maybe it's his logical ( ) conclusion after his childhood events. But the largest group that he could benefit would be the Whispered. To him, then, this might be the "greater good".

And what do you mean nobody assumes his mom betrayed him? Didn't HE assume his mom betrayed him? Wasn't that what this whole betrayal thing was about?

I think what ricerocket meant was that, in the "Birth of the Tuatha de Dannan" short story, Mrs. Maria Testarossa was portrayed as practically a saint. (I think the story was from Mardukas's viewpoint, although I need to check.) Nobody, aside from Leonard, knew about her sordid behaviour or expected her to hand him over to the attackers.

And, of course, Weltall's wondering if Maria betrayed him to Mithril instead of Amalgam, but he formed his own view of things and left them for Amalgam. I'll go see if there's the Chinese translation for "Birth of the TDD".

And as a last jab, Amalgam probably doesn't have therapy groups. They value nutjobs, remember?

[Weltall Elite]

EDIT: Nevermind

[ricerocket]

according to "birth of TDD" mithril didn't even exist until long after leonard and tessa were separated, tessa and her father's friends from the US military, meduka and his friend from the british military started mithril, leonard was NEVER in mithril, period

and i imagine leonard feels that normal people are too stupid and pitiful and they need the whispered to rule over them and make every decision for them include who lives and who dies, same exact mindset of dictators/kings of the past

[Pyrite]

Hey, should've said that sooner - we don't have translations for it. What about Amalgam's origins, and were they those terrorists, in which case?

And for that matter, how exactly does "The Birth of TDD" go? It would help if you could provide a comparison between how Mardukas/Tessa and Leonard tell their sides of the stories.

[ricerocket]

no side story has told anything about amalgam so far so if you've read all the main stories then you know everything there is to know about them

the only possible info is from "birth of TDD" where the terrorists took leonard, but again it doesn't say whether those terrorists were from amalgam or not

"birth of TDD" has two parts, and it's story told from Mardukas' point of view: he was a captain of a british submarine, and in a mission he spotted a russian submarine fighting against an american submarine and he helped the americans out, turns out the captain from the american submarine is tessa's father; few months later tessa's father invited mardukas to his house for a visit, during which he told mardukas about how his two kids are unusually intelligent and know electromagnetic science nobody their age should know (scratch paper for ECS?); then a few more months later mardukas heard that the testarosa couple were killed by "robbers", their house burnt down, and both of their children gone missing. he couldn't believe it and goes back to america to investigage, and at the ruins of testarosa's house he meets some mysterious man who claimed to be friends of the testarosa's, who asks him if he'd be interested in a certain project and says he'll contact mardukas later; some more time passes and there some politic things in the british military and mardukas quits, and then he gets contacted by that man and gets on a plane to go halfway around the world to an island where he is introduced to a giant submarine (some kind of transportation submarine that the russians gave up on cuz it can't move properly) and is asked to be its captain. mardukas says there's no way this submarine could move properly or be quiet enough to keep undetectable. then he hears about some genius kid who's directing the project to overcome those issues, and some time later he finds out that kid is tessa (who yells at him for working too slow like a real arrogant brat ) and that's the start of mithril

that's the main story, but there are also a lot important information on other things such the background of the parallel universe in FMP, how mithril is formed (how the ideas came together, where the funds come from), why china is divided and a lot of other political situations, why tessa insists on being the captain of TDD instead of staying in the research department (basically she and her brother had the black technology that made the ECS, which got put on a nuke and nuked boston or something when the u.s. invaded iraq during the first gulf war, which is where FMP's universe branches off from the real world, so she feels that she must repay the debt)

so anyway, basically it's pretty clear that tessa was by herself at the dawn of mithril, it's more likely that she's been in amalgam than leonard being in mithril, although what i think is that before their parents got killed the both were already kinda working on the ECS, and leonard just took both of their work to the terrorists, which makes sense after MMD07 since tessa was hidden away, and if you read back to "birth of TDD" now where mardukas met the guy at the ruins of their house it seems like they at least knew where tessa went cuz they took her (they were being really hush hush about the kids when mardukas asked instead of saying they were both kidnapped)

[Pyrite]

Thanks! That explains a whole lot...

[Weltall Elite]

I don't know. For all that tells us, it doesn't say much. So there wasn't a Mithril when Leonard was taken. Or at least not as we know it. But almost immediately afterwards, it's started up? I see nothing to suggest that the ones who took Leonard weren't involved with the early development of Mithril. All we really know is that Mithril didn't really get off the ground until later.

Tessa and Leonard were together for a time after their parents were killed. Even if he wasn't Mithril because it wasn't officially around yet, he may have been associated with the ones who created for a time. In any case, he seems to bare a grudge against Mithril.

Is there any mention of Leonard in Birth of TDD to give us an idea of what he was doing around that time?

[Pyrite]

Let's see... Leonard has a grudge against Mithril? If you're talking about his current attitude, maybe, just maybe, they're foiling whatever plans he and Amalgam have, and that's why they have to be eliminated?

And for the attackers... You're suggesting that pre-Mithril elements, later becoming an organisation that's (to put it crudely) the "good side", would attack a family, kidnap one kid (without mentioning his presence henceforth), and still have the other one join voluntarily as well as recruiting the good friend of the deceased head of the household? Highly improbable - but given that twist about Mrs. Testarossa, it's not entirely impossible. However, I get this feeling that thousands of fans will storm Gatou's home if he pulls that stunt.

The new mention of a mysterious man is intriguing, though - but true, it signifies nothing.

About Tessa and Leonard being together for a time: I assume you're using the line from COMO 1a: "That little girl, who, with no one else to depend on, had thrown herself sobbing on the sleeve of her twin brother, was gone." to support your statement that Tessa and Leonard might have been together for a time following their parents' deaths. (I don't know where any other evidence for that can be found, so please give directions.)

Consider her words to Leonard in COMO: "You're my enemy now (emphasis mine)." Prior to that, according to ODBD 1a, his intentions were unclear - but not friendly. For all we know, they might have met a long, long time ago, when Mithril was not aware of Amalgam's existence (read: before ODBD), under more cordial circumstances. That might be all there is to it.

There's too much speculation on all our parts, frankly, and largely unsubstantiated. It's pretty shaky trying to build a case based on the absence of evidence, which, to borrow a oft-overused phrase, does not indicate evidence of absence.

[ricerocket]

that mysterious man is not really a mysterious man lol

it's that general in mithril that you all have seen in the anime when he summons tessa to his room to discuss some things including pulling sousuke back from toyko to concentrate on the arbalist

it was only a mysterious man to marduka at the scene of the story :p


btw that line in COMO really doesn't sound like what you think it sounds like in the original japanese text, it's pretty casual way of describing young kids, and when it says "there's no one else to depend on" it really says "her parents are busy and don't have time to take care of her" instead of "her parents passed away and there's nobody else dear to her besides her brother", so to me it doesn't suggest at all that tessa and leonard had been together for a while after their parents died