Another highschool shooting.....

Post by **Taurec** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 9:39 pm

When are peeps realizing that something like the right to bear arms is obsolete bullshit.

I saw some reactions that the police wasn't acting right .. and that the security + security guards failed ... WTF?????

They want to blame a person for a flaw in the system .. gee thats a new one.

Ryuji · Post by **Ryuji** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:32 pm

I own a glock 36......does that mean i'm going to go shoot up a place?

answer:NO.

KiLlEr · Post by **KiLlEr** » Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:46 pm

They were slow to react. They waited 2 hrs before notifying anyone because they "thought the gunman left".

OK. So If we think the gunman goes home, The cops can leave the scene of the crime? WTF!?!?!

Morons.....

The problem is not the right to bear arms. after all, you can buy weapons in black market regardless of what the laws are. Its illegal to own automtic weapons, but people still have them. Taking away the right to bear arms isn't going to change that.

Chief Petty Officer Klerk · Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:43 am

KiLlEr wrote:The problem is not the right to bear arms. after all, you can buy weapons in black market regardless of what the laws are. Its illegal to own automtic weapons, but people still have them. Taking away the right to bear arms isn't going to change that.

Indeed, Just look at Australia, only criminals have guns now (well you can still get guns, its just so much fudgie paperwork it ain't worth it). They laws banning them don't work on crims cause they don't care...and we have higher crime rate cause of it.

Post by **Taurec** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:01 am

Ryuji wrote:I own a glock 36......does that mean i'm going to go shoot up a place?
answer:NO.

But you could ....
How did you get your glock?

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So how many school related shootings did you guys have down under?

KiLlEr · Post by **KiLlEr** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:26 pm

Hey, its those violent video games Tau.

After all, its too much for people to distinguish reality from fantasy........

I'm just waiting for the news report that says "gunman spent the past 2 months playing Grand Theft Auto"

After all, we can't blame Heavy Metal anymore..... thats sooooo unfashnionable.....

Eisenmann · Post by **Eisenmann** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:46 pm

It's not just the right to own guns or not.

the real problem is the social acceptance of having guns and thinking of it as something worth having und fooling around with! even to let your children grow up with guns around all the time.
stupid americans!

Chief Petty Officer Klerk · Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:48 pm

1 or 2 with guns, and one with a bow and arrow that I can reamber

Circle · Post by **Circle** » Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:41 pm

Outlawing firearms would make the illegal ones so much more expensive and harder to get. If the only method of getting a gun was through illegal means, it would still be worth the lives saved. Some crazy people don't have the connections and money to buy illegal firearms. Maybe by the time they find one, their anger would've subsided and they may have changed their mind by then. Or at the very least, it would delay the shooting and let the victims live a few more days, maybe lose their virginity by then :p, or maybe he would get caught due to the extra time.

Laws of economics: the higher the price, the less the demand.

I've read articles about how anti-suicide measures on tall places like buildings and bridges, such as higher fences, have changed the mind of suicidal people simply because they could not climb over the fence that day. And they next day, they don't feel so depressed anymore. Probably different for people who want to kill, but isn't murder just suicide turned inside out?

I'd rather live in a world without guns than a world where every "law-abiding" citizen has one. We're only good citizens until we go crazy, and if we have guns already, how convenient.

I'd rather take my chances with coming across a killer who obtained an illegal weapon than be paranoid to the point that I have to carry a gun myself.

Wouldn't a ban on guns be worth it if 1 life can be saved? You rather keep your 9mm so you feel empowered than to prevent others from dying?

Eisenmann · Post by **Eisenmann** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:49 am

i totally agree with circle.

JelliCelli · Post by **JelliCelli** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 5:43 pm

Hey Eisenmann, I really didn't appreciate your "stupid Americans" comment there. I don't mean to be whiny, but I always find stuff like that incredibly hurtful. Let's try to keep things friendly here. While gun control is, and will continue to be, a hotly debated issue, I believe there are also other things at work here in this situation. If this kid didn't have a gun, he could have just as easily had another weapon, planted bombs, etc. (Kliebold and Harris made bombs too). While some people can argue that not as many people would have died if this were the case, let's just remember that even one life taken is already too many. It's a shame this kid was picked on throughout school and made to feel like an outsider; who doesn't go through that at some point while growing up? School-aged kids can be the meanest people on earth. However, it was his choice how to ultimately deal with that. Some people rise above it and really grow as people - it's called character building. Others, unfortunately, are not as lucky. This guy wasn't the first and he won't be the last, as sad and messed up as that sounds. I wish there was something in place that could be done in situations like this. I recall one student from VA Tech saying that sure, he saw the warning signs, but you can't exactly approach school staff and mention you think someone may have a problem. It's not like you can call the police in and haplessly arrest him. Some of his teachers even recommended counseling, but it was up to him to get it or not. I know i'm probably re-hashing a lot of stuff you guys already read or heard, but these are just some of my feelings. Take it or leave it as you wish.

Ryuji · Post by **Ryuji** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 8:22 pm

Eisenmann wrote:It's not just the right to own guns or not.

the real problem is the social acceptance of having guns and thinking of it as something worth having und fooling around with! even to let your children grow up with guns around all the time.
stupid americans!

This is coming from a german whose country comited one of the most heinous crimes ever committed in the history of mankind. ...

Before making another post that may have a negative effect on your account please read the PM I send you.
-T

KiLlEr · Post by **KiLlEr** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 10:38 pm

Easy there. Not every german citizen was involved, eitehr they did not know about it or they were kept quiet. You didn't have to be Jewish to end up in a concentration camp, or killed in cold blood.

BAck to gun control. The problem isn't the legal right to have a gun, but the ease of access.

Here in NY it is very difficult and time consuming to get a legal gun permit. However, it is VERY easy to buy one from the black market here, and it is not expensive as you think, given supply/demand. It wasn't until NYPD started cracking down on the firearms supply lines did the crime rate drop. So I disagree about the argument that the prices go up if the weapons cannot be bought legally.

Drugs are illegal, but you can buy them, and it dosn't look like the price is so high that it keeps people from buying them......

The biggest issue I have is the very lax (closer to nonexistant I wold say) control over weapons sales in Virginia. Approval in 10 mins!?!?!?!! Getting a store credit line takes longer! WHat kind of background check can they possibly do in 10mins? Very little. And I do agree that psycological exams which indicate that a person is prone to violence should be made accessible to be check in such sales. I don't think they should be made public, but it should definately be made availible for guns sales. Even if the salesperson cannot directly see it, (i.e. put several forms of id into a computer, which will spit back a sell or deny message to the salesperson, without a reason, but this would mean *gasp* we need to interconnect several government databases).

Making guns illegal won't solve these problems.The killer could have just as easily bought enough fertilizer and ***** to create another Oklahoma City.

and that would have killed even more people.

The other issue I have is the complete lack of securoty in these large college and university campuses. They didn't even have a system to notify students of a dangerous situation, not to mention that the buildingsa are not locked down through out the day, and no security cameras anywhere.

There are alot of otehr pieces to this puzzle tha just gun control.

Post by **Taurec** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 9:43 am

When I made this thread, I knew it could heat up pretty quickly but I assumed we should be able to keep it within the boundaries of what is tolerable.
While we are pretty lenient

I would like to point to the following of the forum policy ( *gasp* yeah we actually have a policy)

d. When engaged in a mock battle, body aiming is not permitted. Aim only for non-lethal hits. Personal attacks of a Serious nature are ABSLOUTELY NOT permitted.
If you feel that someone is attacking you in a personal manner, and not as play, inform me or another mod privately. DO NOT make personal attacks back.
I DO NOT tolerate revenge as a valid excuse for policy breaking.

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Maybe I understand it wrong. But doesn't whole "the Right to bear arms"
eventually enables the ease of access?

KiLlEr · Post by **KiLlEr** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:50 pm

No it doesnot, as you can still obtain them even without the amendment. If people want to buy it, they will buy it, or build it (like a potato gun or primative explosives). It won't make you any safer. AAMOF, It would make it even more unsafe since ownership and the weapon itself would never be tracked at that point, and the self defense aspect would be lost.

The right to bear arms (RTBA) doesnot describe how one obtains the weapons, or even if the sale is conditional. It just allows you the right to have them, but it says nothing about the right to buy them, or even if and how you are allowed to carry them. In NY, it is illegal to carry a handgun in a conceled manner, even if you have a liscence for it, and it is also illegal to carry them into public places and government buildings. You can't even walk into some private establishments as they will deny you access if you are carrying any weapons (you have to enter via a metal detector). High Schools in NYC even have metal detectors, as well as some of the colleges and universities. So just because you can own a gun dosn't mean you can waltz around with it like Charles Bronson in the DeathWish movies.

Also, it is more likely to be a victim of road rage than gun range (statistically there are about 40-50 times as many road rage incedents than shootings in NY). Even with the right to bear arms the ownership of guns in a populated area is very low. Why? because populated areas have more police so the need to own guns is less. BTW, there are no gunshops in NYC. why? You cannot open one as the gun sale liscences are not allowed to be assigned within city limits. Hence all this is why people go to Virginia to buy guns.... NY has petitioned Virginia several times to cease indiscriminent sales of fire arms... Each time they said "but we run a background check so there is no problems", but their background check only looks at Virginian murder/assult records........

There have been countless times in which a legally acquired gun was used by women and familes to defend themselves against robbers and rapists and such. Also, you can't just point and shoot. You have to announce the fact that you have a weapon, and you cannot shoot anyone in the back if they flee. AAMOF, some people own guns with no bullets, since it is often enough to show a gun to a would-be rapist, as they are usualy unarmed and seeing a gun would set them running.

Don't get me wrong though, I'm not a supporter of "fire arms for everyone", but I don't believe stripping away rights is the answer.

There is alot more that can be done which is just as, if not more, effective than abolishing the RTBA amendment. Like I mentioned before, a proper background check with a waiting period is needed, as well as access to psyc exam records in some form.