Are we in a weird parallel universe? [New novel detail.]

Weltall Elite · Post by **Weltall Elite** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 3:10 pm

If that's his name, why was everyone calling him "Michelle" when the novels were first released?

Anysia · Post by **Anysia** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 3:18 pm

Weltall Elite wrote:If that's his name, why was everyone calling him "Michelle" when the novels were first released?

"Michel" is a common first name in France ("Michelle" would mean that we have a case of gender confusion on our hands). It's the French equiv. of "Michael". "Lemon" would have to be his last name.

@ Kitsunegaki

Ah, I see it now. I guess they don't have to go for complete lingual accuracy when they're going the pop culture route. ^^

@ ricerocket

Wow, that's...insanely heartbreaking. And this novel ends on a cliffhanger, too, right? Sometimes authors are just evil personified.

Weltall Elite · Post by **Weltall Elite** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 3:25 pm

Well, I figured someone made a mistake in terms of gender when they called him "Michelle", but it was a far cry from Lemon. It's probably his last name, but I wonder if it's supposed to be something more French sounding like Le Mon.

sj4iy · Post by **sj4iy** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 3:43 pm

Ah, I see it now. I guess they don't have to go for complete lingual accuracy when they're going the pop culture route. ^^

The Japanese going for lingual accuracy?

*sj4iy falls over laughing*

Just listen to almost ANY song in Japanese...then tell me about lingual accuracy when it comes to foreign words and phrases

*sj4iy wipes away tears*

Kitsunegaki · Post by **Kitsunegaki** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 3:58 pm

@ sj4iy
Ooops, it thought that lemon was this guy. So, my theory Leon-LeMon is jammed. Damn!

Kitsunegaki, who knew that she was saying something stupid!

Anysia · Post by **Anysia** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:17 pm

sj4iy wrote:Just listen to almost ANY song in Japanese...then tell me about lingual accuracy when it comes to foreign words and phrases

You know, I still remember the first time I listened to Siam Shade's "Tears I Cried". I couldn't shake the feeling that the last verse sounded a little off, but since I don't know a damn thing about Japanese, I just shook it off. After listening to it half a dozen times, I finally realized that it was in English.

Ah, I guess I'll stop being pedantic about the "Lemon" thing, though it is bothering me that I can't figure out what the hell they were actually going for. I mean, even "Le Mon" would be "the my". Maybe they just picked something at random that sounded French. *shrugs*

ETA: A bit of digging reveals that "Lemoine" is a common French last name, so that could be it. But since there are so many "L" surnames in French, who knows? Gyah, I'll stop now.

sj4iy · Post by **sj4iy** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 4:34 pm

Kitsunegaki wrote:@ sj4iy
Ooops, it thought that lemon was this guy. So, my theory Leon-LeMon is jammed. Damn!

Kitsunegaki, who knew that she was saying something stupid!

Ah, okay...that makes more sense

I was wondering "how did they get Leon from a blonde french guy with glasses?" Actually, that person is Kurama, the bad guy. And doesn't he look all bad ass? Now that you mention it, he does look like Leon.

For all we know about his name, it could start with an "R" or an "L"...the japanese do not distinguish between the two sounds very well at all.

full_metal_sousuke · Post by **full_metal_sousuke** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 11:00 pm

this is lemon

this is Mr. Kurama, he shoots sousuke, and kills nami

JelliCelli · Post by **JelliCelli** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 1:12 am

don't remember anything like that at all in BOMF but here's a rough translation of what was going through sousuke's mind near the end of the book when

Thanks for that little tidbit, ricerocket! I always love picking up new insights on this stuff. It makes me extremely happy!

But hell, I still need to learn Japanese

sj4iy · Post by **sj4iy** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:24 am

Yeah, I nearly cried when I read that part...it was so incredibly sad.

Spoilers:
[ecs]You can tell he's pretty much given up any hope of being with her by then, but all he wants is to see her again. His dying thoughts are of her. You can't tell me he's forgotten about her if the last thing he thinks is how all he wants is to see her again.[/ecs]

Weltall Elite · Post by **Weltall Elite** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:51 pm

You know, when we say "forgotten", we don't mean that he can't remember her. We mean that he's given up on her.

Anyway, by the end, I think it's pretty clear that he hasn't. But it was earlier in the novel that I was wondering about.

Anysia wrote:Ah, I guess I'll stop being pedantic about the "Lemon" thing, though it is bothering me that I can't figure out what the hell they were actually going for. I mean, even "Le Mon" would be "the my". Maybe they just picked something at random that sounded French. *shrugs*

Hey, if they can name a guy "Sailor"...

How about Lehman? That seems to be a real last name. Or maybe Le Mans. I don't know what it means, but it's the name of a car racing series.

sj4iy · Post by **sj4iy** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 3:34 pm

Uhh, probably major spoilers here, read at your own risk:
[ecs]Well, I think the fact that Sousuke thinks about the idea of just staying where he is makes him more human...people don't just blindly keep going after something without thinking about other possibilities. I mean, he knows how Kaname must feel about him and that they can never be together...what does he have to look forward to? But it shows more character that he thinks about this, thinks about how he could just stay where he is with Nami, and that he decides that he cares more about Kaname. Something that hasn't been discussed in this thread in the conversation that Kaname has with Nami. Nami tells Kaname that Sousuke chose Kaname over her, and that even though she tried, she couldn't replace Kaname. If anything, Kaname's the one I'm upset over. She's the one who is doubting her feelings for Sousuke, saying that she "can't be with him" even though he's doing everything in his power to save her (he gets hurt in a monster fight against 10 ASes, then almost gets blown up when he runs into a trap, then is shot through the stomach...and even as he's standing there, knowing he's going to die, he's still asking Kurama where he can find Kaname). IMO, Kaname's the one everyone should be pissed off at, not Sousuke; she's the one judging him for what he's done, when he's only done what it's taken to survive and to save her. Also, the fact that she let Leonard sway her like that ticks me off, too. To be fair, I can understand why she's acting that way- she's confused, hurt and scared of hurting him...she did give herself up to save him, after all. But I'm hoping she comes back to her senses and realizes that he's not a bad person.[/ecs]

Weltall Elite · Post by **Weltall Elite** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:34 pm

Oh, I wasn't too pleased with the way she was treating Sousuke either. It kinda bugged me that after all they'd been through, one statement from Leonard can toss all that out the window. I'm thinking that by this point in their relationship, both of them should have been more loyal and trusting, but I don't know. Maybe I'm expecting too much.

As for Sousuke, I don't think it's THAT normal to be weighing the other options. At least not under those circumstances. Maybe if he was considering coming back to live with Nami AFTER saving Kaname. That might make sense. He could rationalize that he'd have no life with her and that it wouldn't be right to take her away from her home, so he'd make sure she was safe and then move on to his next choice because him living with her in Japan would no longer be an option. That I could understand. It'd be like setting things right and then letting her go so she could live in peace and be happy.

But considering taking the easy road by leaving her to rot in Amalgam's hands... well that's where I kinda drew the line. Especially since it was because of him that she was taken in the end.

I'm not condemning him or saying I don't like him anymore. Just like I'm not saying that about Kaname. I'm just a little disappointed. After that part, I'm tickled pink. I'm glad he came back to his senses and I hope Kaname does the same.

sj4iy · Post by **sj4iy** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:45 pm

Well, for him, it's just a passing thought. I was never struck as "omg, he's turning on Kaname" when I read it (I guess I'm going to have to go through it and reread it- I don't think the summary quite makes it clear). He does rationalize that he has no chance with Kaname, though...but he never thinks about what he will do after he saves her. He just thinks that he's too much of a monster to deserve to be with her in the first place. And it's sad because she is thinking the same thing. This is where I think we start to see a big change in both of their characters- he finally feels guilty about what he's done, and she feels guilty for everything that's happened because of her.
As for Kaname, it's not a passing thought...she really feels that she can't be with him b/c of what he's done. Although this is rather subconscious, b/c she can't remember her conversation with Nami. I wonder what she'll do when she does remember? That's what I'd like to see.

Weltall Elite · Post by **Weltall Elite** » Wed Jan 25, 2006 8:20 pm

Well, that may be true. I've only read that summary, so that's all I know of the scene. It's entirely possible that the summary is a bad interpretation of what's really going on and that quote is being used out of context.

As for Kaname, where did she say (or think) that she couldn't be with Sousuke because of the things he's done? I read that scene with Nami and it never specifically says anything like that. If she felt she wasn't sure if she could be with him or not, it could be for any number of reasons. Anyway, I think she'd be silly if she was suddenly put off by that. But at the same time, I can't compare it on the same level as Sousuke. Even if she did feel she couldn't be with him for whatever reason, she still sacrificed her freedom so that he could live. She could have just as easily thought that maybe it'd be easier to just let Leonard kill Sousuke. They couldn't share a relationship. Things could never be the same again. What's the point in saving him?

If she'd been thinking like that, then yeah, I'd be pretty pissed at her. But she didn't. As far as I can see, she's evidently scared and that's making her question things. And I think that her fear of Sousuke is... disagreeable. But it's something I can see as human.

As for Sousuke, if it was just a passing thought, I could understand it as a moment of weakness in the face of hopelessness. But the summary makes it sound like it's an attitude he'd developed over his time with them, and if that whole thing with the police and Amalgam hadn't come up, he might have acted on it. And frankly, I think very highly of Sousuke. He's my favorite character. And that's why it's something I wouldn't like to think he's capable of.