[FIC] Chapter 03/?? End in Fire 1

HELLFIRE · Post by **HELLFIRE** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 12:07 am

// personally hoping SOME F-14s'll be saved and become FLYING
pieces at air shows and whatnot, but that's just me

@ForzaMilan
From the data I've got, the F/A-18E/F'll be pretty good for the missions
the USN envisions for itself, but against an opponent fielding a
Su-33/Rafael, well... it's a tossup. The brilliance behind this was "well,
the Soviet Union is no more, let's reduce our capabilities as well." It's a
see-saw argument; hell, the USAF kept up with F-22 even tho it was
WAY too much in a post-Cold War era.

No doubt the JSF will be deployed tho, too many ppl invested in it for
it to sink right now. I'm not sure about the wisdom of buying
BOTH the F-22 AND the F-35 from the same manufacturer tho.

@Katyusha
I know about the revolt of the Admirals scandal way back when, but
I don't remember hearing the USN actually shooting down a few
USAF planes just to make their point. Or they gloss over THAT part of
history...

you talking about AIM54 Pheonix? na, they are way too old...

Considering the move to gel-fuels and new improvements in newer
models of the AMRAAM, yeah, the AIM-54 is showing it's age. Plus
if you look up the "World's Most Unreliable Weapons" thread, the
Phoenix didn't have a proven track record in live-fire situations.

...but as Norman Schwartzkoph <sp?> said in the Gulf War (1991),
if ppl THINK you got a working weapon system, then it works

Katyusha · Post by **Katyusha** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 1:48 am

<--- Hopes that they'll sell a few of them to civvies. I'd kill for one...

I'd be interesting if they come up with a modern missile system that even comes close to Phoenix's range though...

Oh, and an old Murphy's law of the military:

Never forget that all your equipment was designed and built by the lowest bidder.

HELLFIRE · Post by **HELLFIRE** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 2:17 am

I know every Tom Cruise-wannabe would. I'd love one too *hehe*
Now THERE'S something to fit under the Christmas Tree

Mach 2 over civilian-areas, what kinda charges would that get you?

[GunBunny]Whited Out to not scare away non-GunBunnies
Don't know if there's any justification for a 100nm+ missile these
days. The whole idea behind Phoenix was the concept of the OAB
(Outer Air Battle), ie. kill your target(s) BEFORE they got too close
to the carrier. If you're only dealing with Etendard/Exocet (or in
that class range) configs, SPY-1/Standard + CAP/AMRAAM is more than
adequate.
[/GunBunny]

Katyusha wrote:Oh, and an old Murphy's law of the military:

Never forget that all your equipment was designed and built by the lowest bidder.

...story of life

Katyusha · Post by **Katyusha** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 3:30 am

And then there's always the nation with a few Backfires and AS-6s to ruin your day.

(Even if the F-14 wasn't in Top Gun, just look at it's record! It's probably the only US Aircraft to ever make it to "Star"-like status.)

HELLFIRE · Post by **HELLFIRE** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 3:34 am

...like Iran, Ukraine, among others, I'd guess?

Actually, F-16 made a few movies (Iron Eagle 2, Flyboys),
F-18 was in ID4 as CGI mostly, F-15 I don't remember...

Katyusha · Post by **Katyusha** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 3:55 am

True, but alot of people can at least tell it's an F-14. People can't tell the diff. between a Hornet and a Fulcrum. The F-15 is a legend in aviation circles. It draws a big "what?" from non-gunbunnies.

ForzaMilan · Post by **ForzaMilan** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 7:16 am

HELLFIRE wrote:...like Iran, Ukraine, among others, I'd guess?

Actually, F-16 made a few movies (Iron Eagle 2, Flyboys),
F-18 was in ID4 as CGI mostly, F-15 I don't remember...

forget "Air Force One"? anyway, it's F15 that keeps the best record of AA combat in history, 94:0 i think, and we should really thank those freaks in IAF for boost such crazy score

Katyusha · Post by **Katyusha** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 2:30 pm

Ah yes, the IAF... the crazy bunch that started making Aircraft reloaders comparable to racing pit crews.

The F/A-18 had it's heyday with "Independence Day", but I doubt many remember it was even called the F/A-18. Unfortunately, it's service record will forever be marred by that one little note that says "First US aircraft lost in the Gulf War". Downed by a the infamous telephone pole no less...

grahf · Post by **grahf** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 4:11 pm

Katyusha wrote:Downed by a the infamous telephone pole no less...

huh?

Post by **Taurec** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 4:25 pm

I do feel sorry for the israeli pilots ... even after they bought a few F-15's in the 70's
They still weren't able to touch those pesky libian MiG 25's so much for glory

Oh .. there was a shootout between the tiny F-5's and F-15's ..at first the F-15 beat those F-5's with a 20:80 ratio .....

But the fun started when those F-5 pilots bought cheap 20$ car radar detectors.. the result was changed in a nice 50:50 ratio ....

@hellfire ... want me to split this to OT ... ?

HELLFIRE · Post by **HELLFIRE** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 5:24 pm

@Taurec
Nahh, 's all gunbunny-related, so I don't care

@ForzaMilan
What sucks is all the USAF planes have such a high kill ratio
compared to the USN plans, mostly 'cuz more were sold to foreign
customers, Israel especially. F-14 has only 5 kills under it's belt,
one a lowly helicopter -- a Mi-8 -- from '91 Gulf War, and the F-18 don't
have more than that

@grahf
The F/A-18 was taken down by the infamous SA-6 'Gainful' SAM, bane
to the IDF during the Yom Kippur War. The F-14 was brought down by
the SA-2 'Guideline' (the 'flying telephone pole') that USAF & USN pilots
learned of VERY well in Vietnam, and Gary Powers' U-2. They ever
heard of RHAWS gear?

Katyusha · Post by **Katyusha** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 5:25 pm

grahf wrote:huh?

Gun-bunny thing. The old Soviet SA-2 Guideline had the nickname "Flying Telephone pole". You could see it from miles away... it's also late 50s/early 60s era junk, so losing a modern fighter to 1 is pretty embarassing.

HELLFIRE · Post by **HELLFIRE** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 5:27 pm

@Katyusha
Didn't help that the SA-2 was modded with an optical seeker

Katyusha · Post by **Katyusha** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 5:44 pm

Details, details... it's still a tel pole....

HELLFIRE · Post by **HELLFIRE** » Sat Jun 21, 2003 6:09 pm

...least till the warhead goes BOOM!!