So did Gauron actually love Kashim?

[terran empire]

Makes sense to me, but i don't make sense to most people.
and i am in total agreement with you Gauron's love of Kashim was that he saw (sousuke) as the closest thing to him self there ever would be i got a similar vibe from Kalinin and Gauron but i think that was more like two predators staring each other down

[HELLFIRE]

Kindred spirits... in a VERY twisted sense. Thankfully the love's onesided... I hope










Regards

[Anysia]

Kindred spirits... in a VERY twisted sense. Thankfully the love's onesided... I hope

Me too. Slash doesn't bother me, but the idea of Sousuke and Gauron is... *shudders violently*

Though there are two or three fics over at fanfiction.net that pair them off. I refuse to read them.

[Kira85]

Kindred spirits... in a VERY twisted sense. Thankfully the love's onesided... I hope

Me too. Slash doesn't bother me, but the idea of Sousuke and Gauron is... *shudders violently*

I shudder too!
In my opinion... I think that Gauron doesn't love Kashim really...He is an insane guy that loves to create anguish and confusion in people...
I also think that this is not love but a mania...

[Tabris]

I finally got my hands on the last volume and finished the first series of Full Metal Panic!!!!

And from first thoughts, I think that Gauron was just saying that to Sousuke to mess around with his mind. We all saw how Sousuke felt when he repeated the words to him, so it was kinda like his leaving present before the two of them died (But we know Sousuke escaped).

[Kaspar]

I don't think Gauron really loves Sagara, because it looks to me unable to love someone, besides that crazy desire to killing.

In fact he could be have some physicological disorder, due his harsh life in Cambodja, where there were once terrible happenings.

But he probably could be trying to confuse Sagara, by telling those things. However he probably is one of the few people who have seen the Sagara's dark side.

We all have to remember Sagara is not completely a nice person, because he still is able to killi or injure someone without thinking a much.

Abstrating all I have wrote before, I don't think Gauron loves Sagara.

I personally don't like that much the yaoi thing.

[LambaDriver]

Major Spoilers!

I have found my explanation of the Gauron/Kashim relationship. Bwahaha. The spoilers are for the new season of anime coming out soon, from Day by Day.

Nearing the end of the book, Sousuke gets a coded message and finds that Gauron is still alive -- just electronic voice box and charred limbs on a pillow, but able to talk to Sousuke. When Sousuke uses the word "please" on him, he gets angry and calls him a whipped dog, and reminds him of what he was like before.

Apparently, when they first met, they were neither allies nor enemies. Kashim was organizing bodies on the side of the road, and Gauron asked him if he had killed all of them. When he said yes, Gauron said that he hoped to see him in the future.

Gauron tells Sousuke (in the present) "When I was the same age, I was in Cambodia. <snip> So at that time, I didn't feel like you were a stranger." Gauron saw a lot of himself in the boy Kashim, in particular one trait he found admirable:

"Back then, you had a truly good look in your eyes. No worries, no hesitation, no pain. They were the eyes of a wild animal - no, a saint. <snip> You would kill a person as easily as taking a breath, and there was no value in the loss of a human life to you. I think it's all right to call that 'beautiful.'"

Love? Perhaps. Perhaps not. I wouldn't doubt, though, that Gauron at least felt more for Kashim than he did for any other person, if only for these traits. He died smiling during Day by Day, happy that he had he had goaded Sousuke enough to bring out an emotionless killer.

Slash doesn't bother me, but the idea of Sousuke and Gauron is... *shudders violently*

"It would be wonderful to kill that kind of you, I thought. I thought about dragging your dead body out of that AS and f***ing it up the a**."

Very hopefully one-sided.

[Weltall Elite]

Well, if you're following the novels, it's not THAT big of a spoiler. :p

The relationship between Sousuke and Gauron is one that's always interested me and I'm trying to flesh it out a bit in something I'm working on. But I agree with a lot of people here that Gauron's "love" for Sousuke comes from the fact that he seems to identify with him on a level that he can't seem to with anyone else. I also think that because of that, Gauron has a lot of hope for Sousuke as a warrior. In a way, you might think of Gauron as trying to transpose his ideals and experience onto Sousuke. Wanting him to avoid the pitfalls of the weak and just look out for himself and become the best killer he could be. In other words, I think that because Gauron was able to identify with Sousuke, he felt some type of fatherly obligation to him to pass on his values, though they may have been corrupt and twisted.

I also believe there's a good chance that when Gauron faced Sousuke all those times, he wasn't necessarily trying to kill him. Either consciously or unconsciously, I think he was holding back just enough to push Sousuke to bring that killer out of him. Though he'd been able to destroy other ASes without a problem using his Lambda Driver, in the final battle of the first season, he simply didn't use it. If he had, I don't see how Sousuke would have survived. And in ODbD Sousuke realizes that Gauron didn't intend to kill him with that explosion, giving him enough of a warning to wake him up and force him forward. Sousuke was even significant enough to him that he sacrificed his two adopted children to draw him out and attempt to kill Kaname so that he could finally destroy Sousuke's humanity, which Gauron believed to be a hinderence to him.

Gauron is a very sick and twisted man, but I believe that there's a part of him he did indeed have a sort of fatherly love for Sousuke.

[HELLFIRE]

Gauron is a very sick and twisted man, but I believe that there's a part of him he did indeed have a sort of fatherly love for Sousuke.

...Gaulun's beyond redemption of ANY kind... you think he's redeemable?

// boots Weltall into a locked room with the ol' guy

Have fun! D*n, we haven't worshipped the guy lately....

// heads over there now















Regards

[Pyrite]

You know, Weltall, you have a really bad string of luck as far as forums are concerned.

I wouldn't go so far as to say "fatherly love", but you can't deny that the two share a great degree of similarity as far as their histories are concerned. In fact, I'd agree with the view that if things had turned out differently, Sousuke might have become a second Gauron - and yeah, I subscribe to the whole "twisted kinship" idea. Gauron probably wanted to turn Sousuke into a similar kind of murderer, which manifested itself in their animosity towards each other.

To extend the idea a little further, isn't there the possibility that Gauron specifically chose his targets? Everything around Sousuke: The Tuatha de Danaan, the team that was sent into (wherever the heck it was, Helmajistan, Afghanistan, whatever), Kaname... I may be starting a conspiracy theory here, but it seems that Gauron picks his battles very carefully, Amalgam or no.

[Weltall Elite]

You know, Weltall, you have a really bad string of luck as far as forums are concerned.

Always glad to brighten your day. >_<

Gauron is a very sick and twisted man, but I believe that there's a part of him he did indeed have a sort of fatherly love for Sousuke.

...Gaulun's beyond redemption of ANY kind... you think he's redeemable?

Well, I wouldn't go so far as to say that. I mean, for the man's crimes, he needs to be put down (several times, evidently). But I will say that there may have been a side to him that wasn't entirely cold and heartless.

I wouldn't go so far as to say "fatherly love", but you can't deny that the two share a great degree of similarity as far as their histories are concerned. In fact, I'd agree with the view that if things had turned out differently, Sousuke might have become a second Gauron - and yeah, I subscribe to the whole "twisted kinship" idea. Gauron probably wanted to turn Sousuke into a similar kind of murderer, which manifested itself in their animosity towards each other.

Well, I say "fatherly love" for a lack of a better term for it. Obviously, if Sousuke couldn't rise to the ocasion, Gauron would have killed him and probably got on with his life. And I doubt he wanted to take Sousuke in the yard and play catch with him. But he did try to impose his values on Sousuke. He did feel that Sousuke was meant to be like him.

Anyway, my whole point with all this was going back to the original question of the thread. I think that on some level, when Gauron said he loved Sousuke, he really meant it. And I don't think it was intended in a sexually or romantically perverse way.

[Wild Goose]

All this talk makes me shudder to think what Gauron did to those twin girls (venom pilot & assasin).

*shudder* He's one twisted guy - anything's possible.

[Pyrite]

Don't dwell on it too much. Somewhere, somehow, you can bet that at least one perverse fan will see the potential for another bad fanfic.

Just a comment on the original question, but isn't the whole business of 'love' at odds with the assassin's ideal? Gauron himself made references to the idea that a killing machine should not have emotions or something like that...

[Jae]

Well, I say "fatherly love" for a lack of a better term for it.

Perhaps affinity. It being a feeling of kinship based on basic similarities, not affection or blood ties.

Too bad the G man lost... it would have been amusing to see S turn into a mini-Gme.

However, I think that treading into the territority requires a mention of Kaname- the suggestion has been that S, prior to meeting K, was a bit closer to being like G. Not cruel and twisted, but detatched, uninvolved, and unemotional. Without having met K, he might not have met G as directly as he did, but he also would still be closer to what G likes.

The anime series also confronted the S-G concept very directly, in the Homeland trio of eps. There S is confronted with what was his alternate G-type possibility. The theme of Sousuke having had opposing potentials is strong, and I wonder if the purpose of those eps was to include that theme in the anime at a time when it was uncertian if more would be made. *shrug*

BTW: I do recall seeing some japanese fanart/fic that was based on a G love story... not sure where. It was with a woman though. But, it looked creepy

[Weltall Elite]

Just a comment on the original question, but isn't the whole business of 'love' at odds with the assassin's ideal? Gauron himself made references to the idea that a killing machine should not have emotions or something like that...

Well, that may be. But if you think about it, if I'm right, then it could be said that those "emotions" are what lead to Gauron's eventual demise.

Perhaps affinity. It being a feeling of kinship based on basic similarities, not affection or blood ties.

Mmm. I don't know about that either. I think that at the end, he went through a lot of trouble to do what he thought was saving Sousuke from becoming weak, going so far as to sacrifice himself and the two children he raised. Far too much trouble to be summed up with a term like "basic similarities".