Hello. I'm newcomer to the world of FMP.. in one week, i watched the anime, read the Boku-Tachi translated novels and nearly saved every fmp image I deem worthy XD
anyway, originally I intended to post a question regarding Sousuke's past but I've tracked back old posts where members have mentioned the novels have not given out any -extensive- information.
Even tho there's not much info, I just wanted to post about something I noticed when I watched episode 2.
During the scene where Kurz was treating Sousuke's battle injuries at school, Kurz then wonders aloud why would KGB be interested/would want to kidnap a high schooler like Kaname?
When the question was asked, there is a lil reaction from Sousuke. Is this any indication of what happened to him? Was this quirk mirrored in the original novel?
From what I gathered from the Boku-Tachi novels, the Soviets did send the child assasin Sousuke to assassinate the leader of the Afghani rebels. When the boy failed, the Afghan rebel took him in and Sousuke spent many years on the run from the Soviets (with Kalinin I presume).
But it didn't explain how did the Soviets get hold of an 8 year old Jpn boy to train? Could it be he too was kidnapped? It seems plausible (and mirrored in RL since I have heard that Koreans have kidnapped Jpn nationals in the past, and forced them to change their names and live in Korea...)
Anyone with info to share or think my theory is nothing but fanciful imagination, pls feel free to comment.
Sagara's past?
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Spoilers:
Sousuke was found in the wreckage of a Japanese plane by Kalinin somewhere in Russia (from what I can remember, it was Russia). He was probably about 3 years old, and his parents were killed in the plane crash (his mom protected him until Kalinin found them, then she died). They took Sousuke with them, and the last time Kalinin saw Sousuke (until they met again in the middle east) was at a Russian port. So that's how Sousuke ended up in the hands of the KGB.
This is all explained in a 2-part short story that recently came out in Dragon Magazine.
Sousuke was found in the wreckage of a Japanese plane by Kalinin somewhere in Russia (from what I can remember, it was Russia). He was probably about 3 years old, and his parents were killed in the plane crash (his mom protected him until Kalinin found them, then she died). They took Sousuke with them, and the last time Kalinin saw Sousuke (until they met again in the middle east) was at a Russian port. So that's how Sousuke ended up in the hands of the KGB.
This is all explained in a 2-part short story that recently came out in Dragon Magazine.
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Without the freedom to criticise, there is no true praise - Figaro, Beaumarchais
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pseudo-chan
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Is it a part of the current storyline (ooh flashback), or was it just like another side story-type thing?sj4iy wrote:This is all explained in a 2-part short story that recently came out in Dragon Magazine.
@ reinselft
I swear I vaguely remember that name from somewhere...(CLAMP comes to mind, but then I also remember something about an original character...god that was like when I was back in high school @_@)
ooh thanks for the spoilers. I wonder when this 2-parter would be compiled? Because I'd be very interested to get it (and stare at it just because I can't read Jpn very well. Oh the irony.)
I knew it would be something like this.. it was either he was taken or saved from an accident on Russian soil. Them KGB fellas are smart ones...
@ pseudo-chan... uh, I started out with the Clamp fandom back BACK then (and made wallpapers). I think that's how u heard my nick.
I knew it would be something like this.. it was either he was taken or saved from an accident on Russian soil. Them KGB fellas are smart ones...
@ pseudo-chan... uh, I started out with the Clamp fandom back BACK then (and made wallpapers). I think that's how u heard my nick.
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Geshron Tyler
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Of course, that still wouldn't explain what a Japanese airplane would be
doing over Russia, since the Russian's and the Japanese aren't too friendly
towards another. A little matter of the Russo-Japanese war, and the fact that
the Russians occupied a few islands (Big rock piles sticking up out of the water, really, I think) that used to be Japanese soil at the very end of WWII
(basically, just doing a land grab when Japan was about to surrender to the US) Though a plane with mechanical and/or navigational difficulties would be
a plausible plot element.
That's quite a convoluted backround though- A Japanese citizen (a child)
stranded in Russia without his parents, and dissapeared by the KGB, trained as an assasin at such a young age (Nasty people, to come up with programs and plans that include such elements) and then they use him in Afghanistan?
That part doesn't seem very plausible really- if they went to all the trouble of
training and indoctrinating Sousuke, why use him in Afghanistan of all places?
It's not like he'd fit in there, assuming he'd have to blend into the population. A likely scenario could be that for one reason or another, the
project of creating child assasins needed to be "tested", or was going to be shut down, and so they wanted to use an asset they had, or didn't need any more, because they had everything to gain, and nothing to lose.
So, he joins the Resistance, and then meets up with Kalinin eventually. Of course, Gauron is still in that story somewhere...
Interesting idea might be that Gauron had been the one responsible for training Sousuke/Kashim. Certainly there was some reason that Sousuke and Kalinin decided that Gauron had to die, and some reason that Kalinin decided to leave Russia, perhaps even desert. He was a crazy, vicious, cruel, bastard so he deserved to die anyway, but there really seemed to be something intensely personal about hunting down Gauron for Kalinin and Sousuke.
spoilers for some of the last chapters of Owari Day by Day
Gauron had those two brothers (chinese? Afghan? I can't remember off the top of my head) that were carrying out his plans, one to fight against the ArmSlaves Amalgam had in HongKong I think, and the other to kill Kaname. But anyway, they were fanatically loyal to him, and he had trained them personally, I think. They weren't any older than Sousuke I think... I'd have to reread that part. But Gauron was just tickled pink with the tools he had crafted, so it stands to reason that it wasn't the first time he had done that.
doing over Russia, since the Russian's and the Japanese aren't too friendly
towards another. A little matter of the Russo-Japanese war, and the fact that
the Russians occupied a few islands (Big rock piles sticking up out of the water, really, I think) that used to be Japanese soil at the very end of WWII
(basically, just doing a land grab when Japan was about to surrender to the US) Though a plane with mechanical and/or navigational difficulties would be
a plausible plot element.
That's quite a convoluted backround though- A Japanese citizen (a child)
stranded in Russia without his parents, and dissapeared by the KGB, trained as an assasin at such a young age (Nasty people, to come up with programs and plans that include such elements) and then they use him in Afghanistan?
That part doesn't seem very plausible really- if they went to all the trouble of
training and indoctrinating Sousuke, why use him in Afghanistan of all places?
It's not like he'd fit in there, assuming he'd have to blend into the population. A likely scenario could be that for one reason or another, the
project of creating child assasins needed to be "tested", or was going to be shut down, and so they wanted to use an asset they had, or didn't need any more, because they had everything to gain, and nothing to lose.
So, he joins the Resistance, and then meets up with Kalinin eventually. Of course, Gauron is still in that story somewhere...
Interesting idea might be that Gauron had been the one responsible for training Sousuke/Kashim. Certainly there was some reason that Sousuke and Kalinin decided that Gauron had to die, and some reason that Kalinin decided to leave Russia, perhaps even desert. He was a crazy, vicious, cruel, bastard so he deserved to die anyway, but there really seemed to be something intensely personal about hunting down Gauron for Kalinin and Sousuke.
spoilers for some of the last chapters of Owari Day by Day
Gauron had those two brothers (chinese? Afghan? I can't remember off the top of my head) that were carrying out his plans, one to fight against the ArmSlaves Amalgam had in HongKong I think, and the other to kill Kaname. But anyway, they were fanatically loyal to him, and he had trained them personally, I think. They weren't any older than Sousuke I think... I'd have to reread that part. But Gauron was just tickled pink with the tools he had crafted, so it stands to reason that it wasn't the first time he had done that.
for the reasons why Sousuke was placed in Afghanistan by the Soviets... I refer to what Jae said.. 'was in the mid eighties or so- during that time the Soviet Union was involved in invading that country (like it did so many other nearby countries). The USA was somewhat active in providing arms and training to the afghan fighters, but despite that, Afghanistan would never have had the military or firepower to resist the Soviets in a conventional war. Their best shot was taking the homefield advantage by using the rough terrain to wage terrorist guerilla warfare.'
So... The Soviets sent the boy to off the Afghan guerilla leader, to further their advance into the country?
The theory that Gauron trained Kashim is interesting... but I kinda doubt it. Because in the Owaru DBD novel, it was told on how they met (Gauron watched Sousuke bury the dead). If Gauron had trained him, I'm sure Sousuke would have recognized him then.
Either that or Gauron did train him but had very little contact with the child... God knows how the KGB did their re-conditioning programmes anyway.
oh a question, was Russian air-space really tight back then? Even to commercial airlines?
So... The Soviets sent the boy to off the Afghan guerilla leader, to further their advance into the country?
The theory that Gauron trained Kashim is interesting... but I kinda doubt it. Because in the Owaru DBD novel, it was told on how they met (Gauron watched Sousuke bury the dead). If Gauron had trained him, I'm sure Sousuke would have recognized him then.
Either that or Gauron did train him but had very little contact with the child... God knows how the KGB did their re-conditioning programmes anyway.
oh a question, was Russian air-space really tight back then? Even to commercial airlines?
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Weltall Elite
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Geshron Tyler
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@Reinselft: How tight was Russian Airspace? As tight as they could make it.
If you didn't have official permission to enter Soviet airspace, they'd scramble on your ass, you betcha. Cold War, remember? The east and the west were playing all kinds of games of chicken, testing the responses of the air defenses. In fact, a Korean Airlines jet was shot down off the coast of Russia, sometime during the 80s. All aboard were killed, I don't remember what kind of plane it was. I forget what official explanation/story the Russians gave, but I seem to remember that the intercepting fighters had tailed the jet for a while before launching missles. I think the plane was even
over international waters at the time it was shot down.
If you didn't have official permission to enter Soviet airspace, they'd scramble on your ass, you betcha. Cold War, remember? The east and the west were playing all kinds of games of chicken, testing the responses of the air defenses. In fact, a Korean Airlines jet was shot down off the coast of Russia, sometime during the 80s. All aboard were killed, I don't remember what kind of plane it was. I forget what official explanation/story the Russians gave, but I seem to remember that the intercepting fighters had tailed the jet for a while before launching missles. I think the plane was even
over international waters at the time it was shot down.
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Wild Goose
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The official explanation for KAL 007 being shot down, IIRC, ws that it was on a spying mission for the West.
As for Sousuke being in a child-assasin school, it's worth noting that his story is by no means unique. Afgan orphans were frequently picked up and shipped off to Soviet assasin schools; many of the graduates would be around 8-9 years old, which tallies with Sousuke being sent on his mission at the age of 8.
As for being Afgan, he'd have spent the next 5 years mixing with Afgan kids. Surely that would have rubbed off on him - plus the instructors would want to make sure their assasins didn't stand out in any way, and appeared to be normal children.
And Gauron's two "assistants" were Chinese, for the record.
As for Sousuke being in a child-assasin school, it's worth noting that his story is by no means unique. Afgan orphans were frequently picked up and shipped off to Soviet assasin schools; many of the graduates would be around 8-9 years old, which tallies with Sousuke being sent on his mission at the age of 8.
As for being Afgan, he'd have spent the next 5 years mixing with Afgan kids. Surely that would have rubbed off on him - plus the instructors would want to make sure their assasins didn't stand out in any way, and appeared to be normal children.
And Gauron's two "assistants" were Chinese, for the record.
Long way to home,
Mou sugu kaeru yo,
Yoake made ni, Kimi no moto e.
Mou sugu kaeru yo,
Yoake made ni, Kimi no moto e.
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Geshron Tyler
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True. We don't know whether or not Sousuke had recieved an extensive amount of special training. He was most likely expendable, just like the other assasins the KGB sent along.
Sousukes backstory, however, has probably been worked through quite thoroughly; there are many refferences to it, some of them even quite early in the series, so it would be natural to assume that by the end of day by day, Gatou had outlined a fairly precise sketch of how he wanted it to play out. The 2-part short story is likely part of this sketching.
Now, as for whether or not Sousuke would be able to blend in...more than anything, kids are kids. In a war-raged afghanistan, where mercenaries of all kinds would've been deployed, a child-soldier wouldn't stand out in particular. It's not like he'd have to go to school with the other Afghan children.
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The theory that Gauron should've raised Sousuke can be ruled out, though. Think about it. Sousuke fought Gauron together with Kalinin, this must've been after Kalinin jumped ship and partied up with the Afghan fighters. We know that he did this, because he was part of taking revenge over Gauron because Gauron did that nasty thing with the AS's.
IOW, at this point Gauron had been assigned to fight against the guerilla warriors. However, when Sousuke and Gauron met for the first time, Sousuke was a guerilla, and Gauron a mercenary. If Gauron and Sousuke had been enemies at that point, and Gauron had supervised Sousukes training, it would be quite unnatural for him to simply leave him alone, wouldn't you say?, Even in the event that he was firstly employed by the KGB, then went solo with a mercenary group, then meeting Sousuke, it wouldn't make sense to leave him be; if he was a mercenary, he would be interested in making profit, profit which could've been made by capturing Sousuke and turning him in as the traitor he was. No, Gauron must've been without contact with Sousuke before that point, that's the only reasonable explanation. He then was _later_ hired by the KGB to fight the guerillas, ultimately resulting in Sousuke sniping him.
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The airspace over The Soviet Union and it's satelites was not entirely strict. I'm sure many of you recall the Berlin Blockade incident; allied aircraft violated USSR airspace at that point, and even if it was back in 47, it still goes to show that shooting down aircraft is not something the two sides of the cold war just did to eachother. There's obviously a difference between the airspace of Eastern Germany and the core USSR, so still, the idea that he was crashed down with an aircraft does seem rather improbable.
On the other hand, it might've been the most reasonable explanation Gatou was able to give. If you observe Gatous writing(heh, atleast the translation), you come to understand that he isn't going down some pre-made path; he is creating as he is writing, which is part of why this series is so passionate, but that does mean that some plotholes can very easily show up.
Thing is, in this case, we still don't know in which area the aircraft crash was. As long as Gatou hasn't provided this exactly in the shortstory, it is plausible without any plotholes, though I recon finding a beliavable real-world location where a 3 yearsold can survive an aircrash and still end up in the hands of the KGB would be pretty tricky..
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It is interesting that within the FMP universe, the CIA seems to have played a less active role in aiding the Afghan guerillas. I'm not quite sure what to make of that, though.
Greetings - AEmer.
Sousukes backstory, however, has probably been worked through quite thoroughly; there are many refferences to it, some of them even quite early in the series, so it would be natural to assume that by the end of day by day, Gatou had outlined a fairly precise sketch of how he wanted it to play out. The 2-part short story is likely part of this sketching.
Now, as for whether or not Sousuke would be able to blend in...more than anything, kids are kids. In a war-raged afghanistan, where mercenaries of all kinds would've been deployed, a child-soldier wouldn't stand out in particular. It's not like he'd have to go to school with the other Afghan children.
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The theory that Gauron should've raised Sousuke can be ruled out, though. Think about it. Sousuke fought Gauron together with Kalinin, this must've been after Kalinin jumped ship and partied up with the Afghan fighters. We know that he did this, because he was part of taking revenge over Gauron because Gauron did that nasty thing with the AS's.
IOW, at this point Gauron had been assigned to fight against the guerilla warriors. However, when Sousuke and Gauron met for the first time, Sousuke was a guerilla, and Gauron a mercenary. If Gauron and Sousuke had been enemies at that point, and Gauron had supervised Sousukes training, it would be quite unnatural for him to simply leave him alone, wouldn't you say?, Even in the event that he was firstly employed by the KGB, then went solo with a mercenary group, then meeting Sousuke, it wouldn't make sense to leave him be; if he was a mercenary, he would be interested in making profit, profit which could've been made by capturing Sousuke and turning him in as the traitor he was. No, Gauron must've been without contact with Sousuke before that point, that's the only reasonable explanation. He then was _later_ hired by the KGB to fight the guerillas, ultimately resulting in Sousuke sniping him.
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The airspace over The Soviet Union and it's satelites was not entirely strict. I'm sure many of you recall the Berlin Blockade incident; allied aircraft violated USSR airspace at that point, and even if it was back in 47, it still goes to show that shooting down aircraft is not something the two sides of the cold war just did to eachother. There's obviously a difference between the airspace of Eastern Germany and the core USSR, so still, the idea that he was crashed down with an aircraft does seem rather improbable.
On the other hand, it might've been the most reasonable explanation Gatou was able to give. If you observe Gatous writing(heh, atleast the translation), you come to understand that he isn't going down some pre-made path; he is creating as he is writing, which is part of why this series is so passionate, but that does mean that some plotholes can very easily show up.
Thing is, in this case, we still don't know in which area the aircraft crash was. As long as Gatou hasn't provided this exactly in the shortstory, it is plausible without any plotholes, though I recon finding a beliavable real-world location where a 3 yearsold can survive an aircrash and still end up in the hands of the KGB would be pretty tricky..
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It is interesting that within the FMP universe, the CIA seems to have played a less active role in aiding the Afghan guerillas. I'm not quite sure what to make of that, though.
Greetings - AEmer.
Is it just me, or are there way too many talking decapitated heads around these days?
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LambaDriver
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