Sagara's case (from FMP2#4 spoiler thread)

[PookaKitten]

1 minor thing bugs me thow pulling a knife on the old lady rather down plays his good side but maby just a boast so that he could get away fromt he angry mob lol

Sousuke isn't totally a good person. He's a mercenary, and currently his targets are the scum of the earth, because that's who Mithril takes on. We don't know if he was picky about what jobs he took after he met Kalinin until he joined Mithril. If his past had gone differently, he could have ended up with the morals of Gauron.

Also, from the very beginning, Kaname has been able to shatter his professionalism. Kalinin praises him as "A pro among pros. He knows where his duties lie," yet as Kalinin said that, Sousuke was disobeying orders and rescuing Kaname. About the only thing that saves him from severe punishment is the fact he always succeeds in averting disaster.

Samantha


[clickety,click this is interesting so it deserves a thread of it's own.]

[Jae]

Sousuke isn't totally a good person. He's a mercenary, and currently his targets are the scum of the earth, because that's who Mithril takes on. We don't know if he was picky about what jobs he took after he met Kalinin until he joined Mithril. If his past had gone differently, he could have ended up with the morals of Gauron.

I think that this is what the anime's Zaido (from the homeland trio) is intended to show. Another child fighter, Sousuke's youthful mentor, grown into an entirely professional, heartless merc. By that point in the series, the difference between the two is stark.

I believe that Sousuke is intended to be seen early on as having been like Zaido (or similar) prior to the assignment to Tokyo, but it's a bit hard to tell in the anime since it's a little rushed.

[PookaKitten]

I think that this is what the anime's Zaido (from the homeland trio) is intended to show. Another child fighter, Sousuke's youthful mentor, grown into an entirely professional, heartless merc. By that point in the series, the difference between the two is stark.

I believe that Sousuke is intended to be seen early on as having been like Zaido (or similar) prior to the assignment to Tokyo, but it's a bit hard to tell in the anime since it's a little rushed.

That's what I mean, Jae. Frost's "Road Not Taken." We also don't know if Sousuke is only "good" in that sense regarding Kaname and the Urzu team, and maybe Tessa, to a lesser extent, and more analytical and uncaring with others. *chuckles* True, he tried to limit the blame Kazuma took in the whole panties incident. Hmm, how many of you think that Kazuma-san was the class wierdo before the advent of Sousuke? Does anyone think Kazuma suspects that Sousuke really is an AS pilot, ignoring the episode with the Daikon/Dragons, since that episode apparently came from nothing existing in the past?

I also think that Sousuke's change to becoming more compassionate began with the mission to save the whispered girl just before being Kaname's bodyguard. (Was that when Gauron got the 'let's take over the Tuatha de Danaan' disk?) When he was undecided about what to do at the end of episode 4, he was having flashbacks to Kaname's different emotions, and the fear in the red headed girl's eyes.

Samantha

[darkbane]

Aww. True, Souske could've easily ended up like Zaido, but I'd like to believe that he's good at heart . He is loyal and dedicated and professional, and he does work for the 'knights in shining armor' after all. I'd like to believe that he didn't sign up for the money, but because of all the horrors that he saw in Afghanistan that prompted him towards the path of Justice. Also, Souske probably is in 'analytical' mode all the time, especially in combat, but that doesn't mean he doesn't care. In the homeland trio, even though he was initially despised by the whole team, he understood that he had the advantage in terms of expertise and information, and tried numerous times to warn his colleagues. If I were there, I'd probably let all those idiots die, knowing that my AS would be the only one able to survive.

I think Kazuma is way too into the whole AS stuff to notice that Souske is more than a hobbyist. After all, Souske does anounce a long reading list in episode 1 that could lead Kazuma to assume all of Souske's knowledge stems from those magazines. Souske does say that Kazuma's knowlege is 'that of a professional' even tho Kazuma only reads the mags and talks to his dad about it.

I may be mistaken here, but I think the 'Toy Box' cd is not the one that appears in episode 1. Gauln (or Gauron or whatever - I just wanna call him Gaul coz he looks germanic/european) states that it was difficult to acquire the disk, but that many people in Mithril are corrupt. My guess is he purchased the loyalty of some Mithril engineers sometime after ep. 1, and thus acquired the technical data necessary to rewrite the AI. (Shinobi's Crispin would, would he exist in the series, probably be a good candidate for such a job - that kind of mentality and personality.) The cd in the first episode is more likely to be research data on the Whispered. Gauron has another copy later on, when the factory gets blown up. Both dvd's originate in Fevrovsk (sp?), hence my assumption. Another reason is that everyone is very surprised at the existance of the cd when Gauron uses it in ep. 21 or so (not sure on exact number here). If they had acquired the toy box cd in ep. 1, they would have reverse-engineered it and found out about its true purpose... and possibly rewritten the ship's AI to be immune to the 'virus'.

[PookaKitten]

We'd all like to hope that Sousuke joined Mithril for altruistic reasons, but I'm not really sure that's quite why he did. He could have done it out of respect for Kalinin (who probably recruited him) because the Russian treated his former enemy with respect when they had a common goal.

Sousuke may have spent those years between meeting Kalinin and the series as an independant mercenary, and simply wanted the comradeship of others who could somewhat understand him. Notice how attached he was to the photograph of him with his comrades posing around an AS. He didn't really find what he was looking for until meeting Kaname, as it was obvious he was on the outside looking in on Mao and Weber, though the pair did their best to let him in.

Spending his formative years in a warzone left him unable to function in a peaceful society. I think Sousuke knew that on some level, and joined Mithril because he had few other choices. It seems, by implication, that Sousuke has no remaining family.

With his past, Sousuke also became dead inside. Who knows what happened to his family, for him to end up where he did, fighting for his life at age 6. Spending the next 10 years selling his sword, so to speak. Killing an unknown number of people. It's nothing short of a miracle that Kaname was somehow able to pierce through his protective shell of indifference.

In a couple more years, he could have become another Zaido, or even worse, another Gauron. Luckily, he found his way into Mithril, which supplied a moral compass of sorts for him, and met Kaname, who gave him a reason to be the good person he has become.

Samantha

[KiLlEr]

Judging from where he came from (and the refugee camp incident), Sousuke has most likely shut himself off becoming no more than a machine. He neither good nor evil. He just "is", existing from mission to mission. The reason why he was sent to Tokyo by Kalinin was to relearn what it is to be human: to learn compassion, to gain an understanding as to what he is fighting for (freedom, love, frendship, etc.). Learning these will keep him from becoming another Zaido.

[darkbane]

interesting reasoning on why he was sent to japan here, i never read that much into it but it makes sense.

the story gap as to what happened between the assassination of gauron and the joining of mithril bothers me. we know that he joined mithril 'a year ago' from the season 1 perspective, if i'm not mistaken then that's when the whole training camp episode took place. the gauron thing was, i assume, way before that. he does say he's been fighting since he was 8, so he might have been 9 or 10 at the time he shot gauron. that leaves at least five years unaccounted for. i don't quite buy the 'independent merc' line, but obviously he was doing some field work, in cambodia and iraq i guess, but working for who?

As for the photo, hmm, if i were with a group of people and they all got slaughtered except for me, then i'd get sentimental too. i'm not convinced that he was looking for companionship, but i think you're right that he'd become dead inside... just mindlessly hanging on, like KiLler said. consider also the 'indian squadron' incident.. 'something in his eyes says he wishes he'd have died that day, too'

geez, with such a gloomy past, let's hope sagara has a bright future with kaname to look forward to although, the day souske loses his warminded attitude/insensibility is the day that the series will die, i suppose, even tho that's unfortunate

[dd]

Hard to say exactly how someone might respond to the things Souske has been through. In real traumatic childhood experiences, people react differently. Did he have a loving family before going warrior? Did he start off with normal emotions, so he has an internal roadmap to return to? Walling things off doesn't neccesarily mean he is running on empty...though he certainly has Walls that would make an Egyptian builder proud!!! As for good and evil...a person's actions give a good idea about that...I don't remember Souske doing anything purposely Bad or Rotten, and I don't get the feeling he is apathetic to other peoples' plights. Some actions may be the Mission prompting him, but some may be his heart. When the team didn't listen to him, he didn't go freestyle, and didn't abandon them.

Wild animal raised in captivity...some lose certain instincts and behaviors and can't go back, while others can. Souske is going from the wild to the domestic, and it looks like it will take a while...but he has had some time at the base and on the sub, and now at the school, so some things might be sinking in. Hope his superiors have a plan for him, or at least understand what might happen...if he he can't act one way in society, and another way on the battlefield, Society may take away an edge that has kept him alive...and if he developes stronger feeling for Kaname, what will that do to his judgement, reaction time, internal balance, certainty, etc. ???

I certainly don't think he is completely an emotional flatline: his reactions when Kaname says it's easy to hate him; his relief when she apologizes; his discomfort when she sees a towel-clad Tessa; his outcry when Behemoth fires on three comrades (he calls out "Kaname", and maybe not just because he had been talking with her); the pain he feels when the squad is wiped out leaving only him; what's going on in his head during bingo (???); talking to Kaname after she goes medieval with the frying pan and he takes out her assailant; noting Kashim is dead; his affect at the secret fishing spot; etc. What's 'in there,' and what he's in touch with may be two very different things. A beaten dog can learn trust (etc) again...and as the cliche goes, you gotta walk before you can run (and crawl before you can walk)...wonder what Souske will be 2/5/10/+ years down the road?

What's the timeline: Souske joined Mithril about a year ago, or became a team with M & K about a year ago? Or neither?

Wonder if Fumoffu will stick to the written word, or go for the emotional highs of a bigger time relationship...will that be killing the golden goose? Will they be content to finish things off, and let the characters (and fans) find their Happy Place (apologies to Happy Gilmore)?

How much hard core story was left unscrpted for anime, following the recovery of control of TDD-1 and the hooking of the mystery fish??? How many episodes might the remaining material be made into, if someone wants to do a season 3 more akin to season 1???

[Taurec]

For those unaccounted years it's more likely he stayed in his homecountry kicking some butt. getting even i assume.

Somehow i'm not entirely sure you can compare sousuke's psyche with that of an wild animal ..... i have to watch jungle book to grasp a better understanding in that particular case.

Welcome to the Board ....

[darkbane]

@dd hey, i'd welcome you to the forum, but i'm new here myself, so i'll leave that for others. heh

as for the timeline: from the anime only, i think we can conclude that he was recruited and situated at a mithril boot camp one year before the events of season 1. it is unlikely that he was engaged in combat on mithril's side before that. my guess is, like others think, that kalinin recruited him but he still has to go through the 'procedures'. dunno what the novels say on that topic tho.

*prays that fumoffu will show more of relationship development later on. we really deserved that. they know we want it, i think. bah, probably ain't gonna happen*

from what i understand from others' spoilers regarding the novels, there's still enough serious material for another season of dramatic episodes. and i guess the story is still ongoing, so if another drama novel comes out, there might even be enough material for even more.

as for souske 1o years down the road: *hopes some fanfic author comes up with something plausible *

[Jae]

There is enough for another hard-core season.
The first season only covered til about the (then-published) half-way point in those novel volumes. For the new people, there are some old threads hanging around in here that go into some of what happens beyond where the anime ended, if you want an idea of those events

Now, if they animate it, is another question.
Assumably the first series was popular enough for them to give us Fumoffu. Hopefully there will continue to be enough interest in more animation

[KashimArbalestAS]

Well, as seen in The End of Day by Day when he gets depressed and leaves Mithril, he's always looking for a job, as a mercenary. Even thinking about that China would be a good place to find someone willing to hire an extra soldier. I don't think he cares who he kills. In Full Metal Panic! episode 10, he was about to shoot Takama Kugyama because that was the easy way out of the situation, but Tessa stopped him, and talked to him about that Mithril fights those who would do such a thing, looks like Sousuke Sagara would do just that. Even if you were a mercenary of good intentions, like being in the employment of a mercenary organisation as Mithril, you still need the skill to kill. It doesn't matter who you kill, but if you had an employer like Mithril guiding your movements, they obviously won't let you either slaughter unrightously or use very underhanded methods.

Like that time he and Gauron first met. He killed all those soldiers, and was lining their bodies. That (could) mean 3 things, he felt sorry that he had to kill them and was giving some kind of respect for them while they were already dead, he killed them without remorse or that he just slaughtered a bunch of the enemy, but the most important, I think thing is, is that the fact he was lining the bodies up. If you hated the enemy real bad, you wouldn't do that. So, that means he didn't hate the enemy since he never got to know them, he killed them only because it was his current mission/situation. If you are disgusted by the dead bodies, you wouldn't touch them. If you were so sad of killing them, you wouldn't do it in the first place. If you enjoyed it, then that's creepy. But, Sousuke did touch the bodies, and laid them out. So, that would probably be the respectful part. When he did that, there shouldn't have been any emotional things going on in his head. So, that showed he didn't really have any scruples against killing. He only does it if he must, as in a mission or for protection.

Of course he cares for people, some people dearly, but there is always that part that is battle weary, and battle hardened. Sure he can talk to someone about weapons and ASes, but he can also operate them to take human life. So, my opinion is is that he has parts to him that are for battle, and the rest is just himself as if he doesn't even know what a gun is. I don't think it would be possible for him to become like a Gauron, Gauron himself seems to have gotten that merciless cruel part of him naturally, probably when he was young where he had to do his deeds. Zaied, he seems more like Sousuke. They're like the same, just on different sides, that's all. But Sousuke obviously won't carry out an order that says eradicate Kurz, or Melissa, or especially Kaname, because he got to know them, and knows that they are more of the innocent type who don't go around causing trouble, as in deaths.

I hope there wasn't any major spoilers, if there were, I'm sorry.

[Weltall Elite]

Thread resurrection!

You have to take things in context. Yeah, Sousuke was going to go back and be a mercenary until he died in the end of ODbD. But at that point, he'd lost his will to live and life itself didn't hold a whole lot of meaning.

Was killing Takama really the "easiest" solution to Sousuke? We see later that Tessa regrets stopping Sousuke because all the people Takama killed after that could have been spared. Sousuke wasn't looking for the easiest solution. It was the BEST solution. He's not your naive Vash the Stampede hero who believes in never killing anyone. He kills bad guys in hopes of saving good guys. There's nothing to suggest that he'd go killing innocents even if he was ordered to. In fact, there's an episode in the manga where he goes to a place that stages fantasies and his was to disobey an order to wipe out a village. People who are indifferent to who they kill don't think like that.

I don't think Sousuke likes killing. In fact, it's pretty established that he doesn't enjoy it. It's just become a necessary part of his life.

Anyway, my understanding is that this very issue will be addressed indirectly in COMO, and has already been touched on in ODbD when Kaname was talking to Leonard. More to follow, I suppose.

[Taurec]

He kills bad guys in hopes of saving good guys

That is not the professional / specialist attitude he claims to have.
Imo he kills bad guys to get the job done. It's not his job to think about the bigger picture.

[sj4iy]

He kills bad guys in hopes of saving good guys

That is not the professional / specialist attitude he claims to have.
Imo he kills bad guys to get the job done. It's not his job to think about the bigger picture.

Well, that's how he used to be...since he met Kaname he's changed quite a bit. He thinks about who he kills, now. He's not the, well, I won't say cold-blooded, but he's not the indifferent killer he used to be.