Ambiguous: Who does Sagara like?

"Rated 15 and older: violence, risqué humor, nudity, alcohol and tobacco use."

Moderators: KiLlEr, HELLFIRE, Taurec

pacing
Slingshot
Slingshot
Posts: 127
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 5:01 pm
Location: Cambridge, MA
Contact:

Post by pacing »

Gabb wrote:I don't remember any moments besides this
>come on, he has to make several attempts to slide out from
>under her body, while she's allllllllll over him trying to stay on top...
>ewww, so unbecoming...
The other time she handed him some serious temptation would be
when she borrowed his shower and came out in a towel.
Gabb wrote:I think other people like Tessa because she is simply more mature even thought being 1 year younger. What really made me dislike K was her typical cranky high school girl mentality. She would blaim S man for being late even thought he was out on a mission saving lives. She just lacked the maturity to comprehend that and that was something only Tessa could understand.
Well you're really saying two things here. First, that Kaname is immature, because she isn't understanding when Sousuke is away carrying off a life or death mission. What is actually happening here is 1. she is not informed about the gravity of the situation because she doesn't have clearance and so isn't given the chance to be understanding, and 2. she's upset that she's not been given any notice, that he forgets to at least say something in advance and really just doesn't realize nor appreciate that she goes to great lengths to cook all sorts of yummy things for example in preparation for the time when he's supposed to meet her to go over Japanese history, and that he doesn't exactly give the world's most heart-melting apologies. Okay, now your second proposition is that Tessa is mature about her affections for Sousuke, because she has an appreciation of the kind of stress that he's living under. It's important that she has that appreciation because she's oftentimes the one who orders him into dangerous situations. However, that doesn't have direct bearing on how mature she is about her crush. Her decision-making, which is supposed to be her greatest strength, is erratic and irrational when he is involved. It's not mature for her to repeatedly abuse her status as the captain, holding all the world's authority and information, to intentionally erode the trust and rapport between Kaname and Sousuke (not exactly the most tactically sound way to go since it's really hard to protect someone when you're not on good terms... also since the two draw on each other as a source of strength and there's always another imminent situation in which they'll have to find it in themselves to save the day somehow).
Gabb wrote:>>Tessa is Sousuke's superior officer, while Kaname is his charge,

btw I have to disagree with you there :) remember in the ending- *SPOILER WARNING*

Tessa is the one who really takes charge telling the frightful niave teenage girl Kaname what to do with that whole universal key thing ( which I thought was totally cool :P ) Tessa really stood up to Gual and got beat bad for it :( but shes still smart even thought she hit her head really hard ( that nose bleed part was just freaky ) In general I think Tessa is a far less cranky and more caring individual then Kaname can ever be.
Er, by "Kaname is his charge" I meant that protecting her is his standing mission objective. Tessa did rise to the occasion in the ending sequence, but how she does so is never explained to Sousuke, which is certainly a bit unfair since he's fully aware of Kaname's end of it (taking over as the cognition of the ship, and fighting with him against Gaulun). Along those lines, I don't believe that Kaname behaved in a teenage manner at all in the battle situation; she was a fighter the whole time (well, she's always a fighter). Tessa is definitely less cranky, but she doesn't have the unwavering heart that Kaname does. Sousuke is the number one point of compromise to both her emotional intentionality and her mental decision-calculus. He makes her weaker. That's *so* incredibly not good, independently of any other players and circumstances that might factor in the picture. Doesn't Tessa deserve someone who gives her strength, and who derives strength at every thought of her? Maybe Takuma, if he weren't crazy, insecure, and supremely egocentric (he never loved her more than he loved himself, seeing as he tried to take her down with him).

Sousuke and Kaname make each other stronger, and by the end, they care for each other on such a deep level that the official relationship aspect is nearly superfluous. Which is to say, I think the ending is completely appropriate.

(Perhaps in some cases, the best part of a relationship is the period when the object of your affection returns your feelings, but the relationship hasn't been established and certain questions haven't yet come into play, so the situation is just a tingly, delicately balanced dance... <lalala the serious nonrelationship... not to be confused with the shallow, flirty variety>)

p.s. I should probably mention here that Melissa is my favorite female FMP character, and that there are many things I really can't stand about Kaname, like her blue hair, her exhibitionism as class rep, her laugh-for-when-she's-busy-denying-the-painfully-obvious... So it's not like I want my favorite FMP gal to get the hero; I'm just calling it like it is.

User avatar
HELLFIRE
Rezident GunBunny
Rezident GunBunny
Posts: 9569
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2003 12:42 am
Location: the fine line between creative genius and insanity
Contact:

Post by HELLFIRE »

@nobody in particular
We could debate this till the sun goes nova and never reach a consensus.
BTW pacing, was Souske @ home at that number I gave you? Maybe
we can ask him directly
SEARCH Function | Forum Rules | Forum Fansubs Policy | Boku-Tachi Novel FAQ
---
On a good day, a Tomahawk can fly into the door of a two-car garage at the distance of several hundred miles. And that can ruin your whole day.

pacing
Slingshot
Slingshot
Posts: 127
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 5:01 pm
Location: Cambridge, MA
Contact:

Post by pacing »

HELLFIRE wrote:@nobody in particular
We could debate this till the sun goes nova and never reach a consensus.
Well, yeah, easy consensus would take all the fun out of it!
HELLFIRE wrote:BTW pacing, was Souske @ home at that number I gave you? Maybe
we can ask him directly
*snif* No I got Kurtz, and he tried to hit on me! Over the phone, no less!!!

User avatar
HELLFIRE
Rezident GunBunny
Rezident GunBunny
Posts: 9569
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2003 12:42 am
Location: the fine line between creative genius and insanity
Contact:

Post by HELLFIRE »

pacing wrote:*snif* No I got Kurtz, and he tried to hit on me! Over the phone, no less!!!
Funny, got that number direct from Souske. I swore that I wasn't going to
use it for anything nefarious :sighs:
SEARCH Function | Forum Rules | Forum Fansubs Policy | Boku-Tachi Novel FAQ
---
On a good day, a Tomahawk can fly into the door of a two-car garage at the distance of several hundred miles. And that can ruin your whole day.

User avatar
Jae
Dictator
Dictator
Posts: 3857
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2002 6:21 am
Location: slacking off for once in a semester
Contact:

Post by Jae »

Funny thing is, The Kaname vs Tessa for Sousuke issue doesn't seem to place Kaname fans vs Tessa fans.

Normally in shows with this forumla, it that seems to be the common set up, everyone's simply backing their favorite character.

In this issue, the debate seems to be fans who have some understanding of the characters personalities vs fans who don't (and want a formula ending).

Tessa fans who wish Sousuke would pick her don't seem to be very concerned with if they are a good and equitable match. It mostly seems to come down to them wanting for Tessa what she wants for herself.

And the occassional fan who complains about the ending not being clear enough, again, everyone should realize that the typical ending isn't appropriate here and would be wildly out of character for both S and K.

I guwss I felt like thowing that in there after reading some posts in other places where some said the ending wasn't a good one... :wall:
It's just more subtle and mature than you usually get in anime.
The audience applauded, even though it was not clear what Bush meant.

User avatar
Saeki Ena
Water Balloon
Water Balloon
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu May 29, 2003 11:56 am
Location: Seoul, South Korea

Post by Saeki Ena »

I'd say the ending in anime isn't really an ending. 'Cause there are more stories after that in the novel series.

Actually they animated only first 3 books and it's about a third of the entire series. (6 books were published as of now and the author says he plans to write about 3 books more and end the series.)

In recently published 6th book, Sousuke does choose someone but I won't reveal which of the two he chose since it's a major spoiler.

Personally, though I love Kaname I prefer S+T couple. Tessa is a lonely girl who has to deal with every difficult situation at the age of 16.

While Kaname takes her life with Sousuke for granted, Tessa does not. Just short talk with him is a precious time for her. Even when doing her job she can't resist but thinks about such as going out with Sousuke and watching stars in the sky with him. But she knows it's impossible for her. It's sad.

So I can't help but rooting for her.

grahf
Hand Grenade
Hand Grenade
Posts: 1014
Joined: Thu May 08, 2003 1:42 pm
Location: within the mind
Contact:

Post by grahf »

*sniff*

that's right. :cry:

User avatar
blackrose
Rusty Pocketknife
Rusty Pocketknife
Posts: 140
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2002 2:15 am

Post by blackrose »

Jae wrote: Funny thing is, The Kaname vs Tessa for Sousuke issue doesn't seem to place Kaname fans vs Tessa fans.
Which, coming from GW fandom, is really a nice thing. I hope it stays that way.
And the occassional fan who complains about the ending not being clear enough, again, everyone should realize that the typical ending isn't appropriate here and would be wildly out of character for both S and K.

I guwss I felt like thowing that in there after reading some posts in other places where some said the ending wasn't a good one... :wall:
It's just more subtle and mature than you usually get in anime.
Well, I *liked* the ending. Sure, I wish Sousuke would have grabbed her and kissed her - wildly OOC be damned, but I thought the ending was appropriate for them. I heard, too, that some people thought the ending wasn't a good one, and I completely disagree.

If anything, I'm more annoyed with dropped plotlines, though I do love the series. *sigh* At 1/2 a chapter per issue I'm going to be dead before they finish translating the manga into English.... *goes looking for Japanese language courses*

Love,
Rose<--who sides with Jae
I write Full Metal Porn!

Commander of the 1xR Brigade
General of the Kyoru Romance Squadron
Webmaster, Blissful Ignorance

Fanfiction.net Author

Katyusha
Over the Shoulder Rocket Launcher
Over the Shoulder Rocket Launcher
Posts: 2998
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2002 6:33 am
Location: I wish I knew
Contact:

Post by Katyusha »

10 bucks says that the males who want Sagara to end up with Kaname just want Tessa for themselves. lol
Remember kids, trying to start Armageddon is dangerous. Do not try it at home.

[14:57] Silver Lynxy: Ack. You couldn't see that?
[14:57] Katyusha [Love Through Superior Firepower]: Nope, cant see a thing.
[14:57] Katyusha [Love Through Superior Firepower]: Not using MSN remember?
[14:57] Silver Lynxy: Oh right. You're one of those Trillian people, aren't you?
[14:58] Katyusha [Love Through Superior Firepower]: trillian people? =.= What are we, an ethnicity now?
[15:00] Silver Lynxy: Yes. An evil race.

User avatar
blackrose
Rusty Pocketknife
Rusty Pocketknife
Posts: 140
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2002 2:15 am

Post by blackrose »

Katyusha wrote:10 bucks says that the males who want Sagara to end up with Kaname just want Tessa for themselves. lol
You can have her. Totally. She's allllllllllll yours. ;)

Love,
Rose
I write Full Metal Porn!

Commander of the 1xR Brigade
General of the Kyoru Romance Squadron
Webmaster, Blissful Ignorance

Fanfiction.net Author

User avatar
HELLFIRE
Rezident GunBunny
Rezident GunBunny
Posts: 9569
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2003 12:42 am
Location: the fine line between creative genius and insanity
Contact:

Post by HELLFIRE »

// preps the wedding chapel for Katyusha & Tessa, or whatever he plans
to do with her :twisted:




To put another spin on the whole Chidori v Tessa thing, I look at the
neverending triangle between Archie and Betty & Veronica. All
teenagers, all same age. Betty/Tessa is the natural girl next door,
sweet and kind, but very shy, but also rises to all occasions. She'd
do just about anything to get Archie to even notice her once in awhile,
and if the artists/writers'd just let her, I doubt she'd be above using her
body to get Archie.

Veronica/Chidori is spoiled, vain, fiercely independent and competitive.
She already has Archie wrapped around her finger, and probably enjoys
it, but often takes it for granted, until something like seeing Betty horn in
on her 'turf' brings back Archie's worth to her.

The point being? Maybe it's not who should who end up with in the end,
but the struggle in figuring out who you should end up with. All have their
strengths and flaws, and it's gradually watching them come out and
judging for ourselves...

...or it's all a big conspiracy by the writers to make overly obsessed
fans waste the rest of their lives debating which came first, the chicken
or the egg :lol: :-P
SEARCH Function | Forum Rules | Forum Fansubs Policy | Boku-Tachi Novel FAQ
---
On a good day, a Tomahawk can fly into the door of a two-car garage at the distance of several hundred miles. And that can ruin your whole day.

Katyusha
Over the Shoulder Rocket Launcher
Over the Shoulder Rocket Launcher
Posts: 2998
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2002 6:33 am
Location: I wish I knew
Contact:

Post by Katyusha »

Actually, I just want the uber-sub. :-P :-D
Remember kids, trying to start Armageddon is dangerous. Do not try it at home.

[14:57] Silver Lynxy: Ack. You couldn't see that?
[14:57] Katyusha [Love Through Superior Firepower]: Nope, cant see a thing.
[14:57] Katyusha [Love Through Superior Firepower]: Not using MSN remember?
[14:57] Silver Lynxy: Oh right. You're one of those Trillian people, aren't you?
[14:58] Katyusha [Love Through Superior Firepower]: trillian people? =.= What are we, an ethnicity now?
[15:00] Silver Lynxy: Yes. An evil race.

User avatar
HELLFIRE
Rezident GunBunny
Rezident GunBunny
Posts: 9569
Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2003 12:42 am
Location: the fine line between creative genius and insanity
Contact:

Post by HELLFIRE »

I'll make sure she's got a full load of TLAMs, Mk 48s, and she won't
make you glow in the dark, Katyusha :-D
SEARCH Function | Forum Rules | Forum Fansubs Policy | Boku-Tachi Novel FAQ
---
On a good day, a Tomahawk can fly into the door of a two-car garage at the distance of several hundred miles. And that can ruin your whole day.

User avatar
Jae
Dictator
Dictator
Posts: 3857
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2002 6:21 am
Location: slacking off for once in a semester
Contact:

Post by Jae »

Hellfire- really good spin :)
I think in well written shows this aspect shows- it's about the individuals involved, their cons and pluses, ect.

In poorly done shows, it seems as if the creators didn't really understand the nature of it- the triangle/harem ploy is used merely as a source of comedy (and stress, for the point-guy).

To add to it, just remember that the vast majority of shows involving a growing love interest/relationship always end at about the time a choice is made and acted on. When the couple gets together, the story is done, basically.
The audience applauded, even though it was not clear what Bush meant.

grahf
Hand Grenade
Hand Grenade
Posts: 1014
Joined: Thu May 08, 2003 1:42 pm
Location: within the mind
Contact:

Post by grahf »

@hellfire:

nice comparison. :-D

@jae:

i just hope the show won't be over when that happens.
.................who's that in your avatar? :-D

Post Reply