Ambiguous: Who does Sagara like?

AEmer · Post by **AEmer** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:20 am

ah, well see, that's something I definately wasn't aware of, that he swore that.
Still, I recon one way to take it will be to keep them seperate for a while. It'd be odd if it extended more than 1 or 2 novels at the most, though.
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I'm fairly certain she also felt guilty about the kiss. Not just guilty that she hadn't been true to herself by kissing with Sousuke when she gave him that haircut, but also guilty that she hadn't resisted Leonard..., _even if she couldn't do anything to resist_ she felt guilty about that(imo), I guess that was the point.

There are also those in-mind descriptions of Leonard where he 'appears to be handsome' and such things. Bah. Maybe it's my teachers fixation upon that kind of thing that's effecting me, but eh, I still say there's the _potential_ for Kaname to be getting confused and frustrated about her own feelings.

Weltall Elite · Post by **Weltall Elite** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:05 am

Well, I won't go so far as to say she COULDN'T do anything to resist him, but she didn't. And because of that she was disappointed with herself. Probably because it meant she was weak. If she felt like she'd betrayed Sousuke, I don't know.

I believe the question here is why she didn't resist him. Before I came here, cultnirvana made a comment in the DVMC thread about Kaname having a thing for Leonard and that's why she didn't resist the kiss. Sounds to me like that may be where you're going with this. I didn't agree with that line of thinking though. Yeah, she thought he was good looking, but that in itself doesn't really mean anything.

I posted a reply in regards to what I thought was meant by the situation, so I'll make this brief. Basically, Leonard brutally murdered some guy right in front of her, so I doubt she was feeling those confusing emotions of attraction at that point. The situation had risen well above that. She'd had to fight for her life, spent the last few days in terror, trembling in a corner of her apartment. Her emotional state was likely a wreck. So Leonard takes advantage of her while she's vulnerable and she was a little too stunned to react.

I wouldn't assume their relationship was any deeper than that. But I guess we'll find out for sure in the coming novels.

AEmer · Post by **AEmer** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:11 pm

true, I am thinking a long the lines of 'Kaname may have a thing for Leonard', but I haven't put it in such terms for a reason - because I agree, when put like that, it doesn't make much sense as of right now.

The point is not why or whether she could stop Leonard from kissing her (when you're hugging your breasts because you're naked with one hand, when you've fallen several times and have multiple scrapes all over your body, when your muscles are strained from several heavy impacts, and when you're completely chilled because you're outside, naked, in autumn, while it's raining, it _is_ physically hard to ward off a kiss), the point is how she feels about it...and imo, she feels a sense of betrayal as well as a sense of loss.

Her reluctance to tell Sousuke about the details is not due to her reluctance of telling her true feelings to him - in fact, she has no problem denying them, or not going there, most of the time - in my oppinion, she also feels guilty about not telling Sousuke, but all the same, she chooses not to...In my oppinion, it is hinted that the real reason is that her feelings are mixed. Like you say, we'll see about it in the comming novels.

Jae · Post by **Jae** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 6:41 pm

When we see Kaname again, I expect she'll be (or become) confused with the whole '2 guys, which guy?' story subplot. Just a standard delay tactic

Leo's loathesome, but she'll quietly become aware of his humanity and perhaps pity him. Then maybe she'll see her well-being depends on his will to protect her from a worse fate, and she'll find herself weaker against him.

But before anything undoable happens, maybe she gets to berate Sousuke for taking so long to finally show up

But her angst and fustration will finally find their old familiar outlet, and with a return to an old pattern, her deeper feelings for him will reemerge (after confusing him throughly, and some terrible standoff between Leo and Sou with K in the crossfire zone)

And just as she's managed to 'save' Leonard from being a total bastard, he dies gracefully and tragically.

Well, one can hope.

Geshron Tyler · Post by **Geshron Tyler** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 6:58 pm

*views Jae askance*

I wonder how much of Jae's "speculation" is just that, and how much she's read ahead of the rest of us...

Sooner rather than later, this series will give me the kick to start actually
learning Japanese.

Meanwhile, like the rest of the Japanese language impaired, I will wait patiently... yes, patiently... for the Brandi to do us the supreme honor of tranlating the suceeding novels.

Actually, Jae is probably pretty much on the money- These sort of adventure
stories usually are fairly formulaic. I for one, hope Gatou gives us a few surprises.

Weltall Elite · Post by **Weltall Elite** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:12 pm

AEmer wrote:Her reluctance to tell Sousuke about the details is not due to her reluctance of telling her true feelings to him - in fact, she has no problem denying them, or not going there, most of the time - in my oppinion, she also feels guilty about not telling Sousuke, but all the same, she chooses not to...In my oppinion, it is hinted that the real reason is that her feelings are mixed. Like you say, we'll see about it in the comming novels.

Well, I would seriously doubt that at this point she's weighing any positive emotions for Leonard. It's not like she's had any reason to see any good in him, and she's not one to just swoon over every good looking guy who comes along. And it was even less likely under the circumstances. Not telling Sousuke could be for a number of reasons though. Most likely, I think she has a pretty good idea about his feelings regarding her. And she knows that on at least some level she feels the same way. What good would it be to tell him? It'd only hurt him and she'd have to dwell on it some more. I'm sure she'd like to just forget about it.

Jae wrote:When we see Kaname again, I expect she'll be (or become) confused with the whole '2 guys, which guy?' story subplot. Just a standard delay tactic

Leo's loathesome, but she'll quietly become aware of his humanity and perhaps pity him. Then maybe she'll see her well-being depends on his will to protect her from a worse fate, and she'll find herself weaker against him.

I'd be screaming OOC (not to mention stupidity on Kaname's part), but if the story follows traditional cliches, I fear that's plausable.

Well, here's hoping you're wrong.

Jae · Post by **Jae** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:26 pm

Geshron Tyler wrote:I wonder how much of Jae's "speculation" is just that, and how much she's read ahead of the rest of us...

I wish. I don't think Kaname's made an appearance yet.

FMP does follow alot of the typical formulas, but it often gives a good twist to make them more exciting. I expect the acutal story will be much better, but almost surely a couple of those cliche elements will probably be there in some fashion

Humanizing Leo is required, isn't it? Unpreventable fallout from learning about his past.

Weltall Elite · Post by **Weltall Elite** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:43 pm

Maybe. But I'm kinda hoping that Tessa will be the one to show him the light as his sister rather than Kaname.

Jae · Post by **Jae** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:45 pm

Heh, I wouldn't rule anything out until it's been written and translated.

KiLlEr · Post by **KiLlEr** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 8:15 pm

Great..... Tessa and Leo..... Yet another brother/sister-complex storyline perhapse?

LOL

Weltall Elite · Post by **Weltall Elite** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:53 pm

Well... I actually meant just a regular brother/sister relationship. I didn't necessarily mean crossing over into the realm of the taboo.

Anyway, here's another cliche to exploit. And this one actually seems better fitting for Kaname's character since she doesn't seem like the damsel in distress, nor is she the floozy for the good looking evil guy with a heart.

Kaname gets kidnapped, but istead of waiting around for Sousuke to rescue her or buttering up Leonard's good side, she raises hell for him, refuses his advances, and tries to escape on her own. Then Leonard, enraged by her rejection (because he's an arrogant jerk who can't take rejection) flies into a rage and decides that if she won't be his, she won't be anyone's. Then he sets out to have her killed or used as an experiment or whatever. But just as things get ugly, either Sousuke shows up to save the day or Tessa appeals to her brother's better nature. Either way he dies a horrible death.

The ultimate coolness would be if Sousuke were the one to "save" him though. I mean, at that point, he'd have every reason to hate him. If he spares his life and makes him turn around, it'd boost Sousuke's image big time. He'd be showing mercy, as well as proving himself the better man. And Sousuke gets his woman for good measure.

Yeah, I think that might be the only victory for Sousuke sweeter than Leonard dying a slow and painful death.

Heh heh. My imagination's getting carried away.

Gabb · Post by **Gabb** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:54 pm

Weltall Elite wrote:Well, I won't go so far as to say she COULDN'T do anything to resist him, but she didn't. And because of that she was disappointed with herself. Probably because it meant she was weak. If she felt like she'd betrayed Sousuke, I don't know.

.

I think the story mimics real life behavior. I mean you have to remember that Kaname is only a mere 16-17 years old? and we all know how 16-17 year olds act

they really don't have a big concept of loyalty or true "love" and pretty much just act on their hormones. I think this was also the case with Leo.

Weltall Elite · Post by **Weltall Elite** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:03 am

I don't know if I'd go that far either. Kaname's portrayed as a late bloomer when it comes to love, so she's not one that's swayed so easily by her hormones. But if you also want to talk about real life behavior, see how big a role a person's hormones or sexuality play when a person is in fear for their life. You can't just write someone off as a teenager and base their actions around sex. People, teenagers included, are far more complicated.

I'm not saying it has ANYTHING to do with love or guilt. In fact, I think it's largely Sousuke's fault the whole thing happened to her to begin with. On some level, I think she blamed him for it too, considering her reaction at the end of ODbD.

AEmer · Post by **AEmer** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 1:37 pm

IRT Weltall
"
Kaname gets kidnapped, but istead of waiting around for Sousuke to rescue her or buttering up Leonard's good side, she raises hell for him, refuses his advances, and tries to escape on her own. Then Leonard, enraged by her rejection (because he's an arrogant jerk who can't take rejection) flies into a rage and decides that if she won't be his, she won't be anyone's. Then he sets out to have her killed or used as an experiment or whatever. But just as things get ugly, either Sousuke shows up to save the day or Tessa appeals to her brother's better nature. Either way he dies a horrible death.
"
You'd really like that turn of events, wouldn't you

?

Anyway, I think it'll play out in a way where Kaname ends up pitying Leonard...just like Kalinin ended up pitying that A-21 (or whatever number) terrorist girl... This isn't your typical guy-novel where the hero kicks a lot of ass and the girl keeps drooling over him, this is supposed to be complicated...
And yeah, this story wouldn't be complete without giving Kaname some moral choices during this arc...Leonard _is_ the only guy she's ever kissed with, nomatter how you look at it.

Geshron Tyler · Post by **Geshron Tyler** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 2:22 pm

Is it just me, or have gotten somewhat off of the topic of who _Sagara_ likes?

Maybe we should change the topic to "Who does Kaname have the hots for more?"