Japan has ushered in a new type of cosplay...

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Circle
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Post by Circle »

Why can women crossplay as men well but men can't crossplay as women as well?

I'd like to say it's because women look naturally less grotesque than men... but it could be more than that. Are we raised to think smooth skin and slim bodies are more desirable or is it natural to be disgusted by body hair? Why does it seem so weird for a guy to wear a skirt but not so when a woman wears pants? Is it cuz we're simply not used to seeing them or do we naturally want clear distinctions between the sexes?

Or maybe hot women just look good in whatever they wear and ugly men are just... ugly. :roll:

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Post by Jae »

I like your questions, Circle :twisted:

But aside from that- men would generally look 'better' (or, more like the females they were portraying) if they shaved first. I think part of it is seeing hair that on a woman is usually less visible or totally gone (esp for a younger cosplayer). Fans of anime chicks might not like seeing bearish versions of them. (tough for them, IMO)

I'm trying to stay out of the 'american standards of fake-youth beauty' corner, so I'm sticking with 'a more accurate portrayal' thing via a 'doing all one humanly can to shape one's appearance for the costume' angle. :whistle:
So a girl playing an anime guy (frequently a young and/or bish femme type) has less distance to go than a guy playing a girl- and almost all anime girls are girly in some fashion, even the kickass ones.

If you want to get into social issues-
An additional roadblock is that manly is an accepted goal in society and being feminine isn't valued much. Girls can only go 'up', but for a boy to play a girl, or do/like something girly, he is perceived as going 'down'. It's just the same old same old sexism.


But, sadly, if the man-faye/sailor bacon type of guy crossplayers did shave, they'd be less appalling to look at. And not being appalled isn't any fun :twisted: Yay for couragous, retina-burning manly crossplayers!
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Post by KiLlEr »

I dunno. a 300lb lbd dude in a super tight Sailormoon outfit that looks like a supersized muffin top with a butt crack the size of the grand canyon is somehow unappeiling, even if he bathed in Nair. :sick:
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Post by Mecha »

Circle wrote:Why can women crossplay as men well but men can't crossplay as women as well?
Well becouse most male anime charachters are little femine its easy for women to cosplay them. Of course best ones are men that can cosplay female anime charachters well.
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Post by full_metal_sousuke »

thats why you see almost all women cosplaying as shesshomaru from inuyasha cause sessh is womenlike. i dont like it when i see 300lb women in thight cosplay cloths its gross.
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Post by Jae »

full_metal_sousuke wrote:i dont like it when i see 300lb women in thight cosplay cloths its gross.
Too bad. At least you're allowed have your opinion. But maybe even those need to come with warnings. :roll:

Killer- I didn't say they'd be pretty :lol:
But I think the body hair is the biggest OMG trigger, generally.
The audience applauded, even though it was not clear what Bush meant.

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Post by HELLFIRE »

...I was gonna comment how cute she looked... till I got reminded it might be a guy underneath...
Yeah, nothing new about those cosplay facemasks, they've been around for awhile now.

As for the guy cosing as a girl.. might have something to do with our unconscious
revulsion in seeing a guy successfully make himself desireable, then realizing
you were sucked in as well...










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Post by SOULS_LEADER »

Oh it's one of those situations

"Wow... you're hot in that costume..."

"Thanks"

"Wow, your voice is deep"

"It's because I'm a man..."

"Oh... Never mind"


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Post by HELLFIRE »

...got it in one SL









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Post by SOULS_LEADER »

Don't ask... Let's just say I don't talk to the cosplayers as much as before :-D
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Post by kira107 »

KiLlEr wrote:I dunno. a 300lb lbd dude in a super tight Sailormoon outfit that looks like a supersized muffin top with a butt crack the size of the grand canyon is somehow unappeiling, even if he bathed in Nair. :sick:
Erm... ._O;;
Blame it on the posessed leprachauns.

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Post by Pyrite »

Jae: Actually, the body hair might not necessarily be the problem. It might actually be the facial hair... which is definitely wrong. :twisted:

(And frankly, I think what f_m_s might be trying to say is that 300 lb people, regardless of gender, should generally avoid squeezing into overly-tight costumes. While this will inevitably open up another huge can of worms about body image, I will stand by my opinion that really tight clothes are bad for both you and other people.)

Generally, I agree with the idea that it's because anime males (esp. bishounen) are generally more effeminate in physical features: long, flowy locks, relatively thin faces, generally slimmer build, etc. I don't expect a girl to pull off most of our FMP male cast, save Leonard (even Gatou says he looks like a girl!) and Kurz.
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Post by Jae »

Pyrite wrote:I will stand by my opinion that really tight clothes are bad for both you and other people.
Why? Does body image even have to be a part of the discussion?
Can't it be, 'A fan is having a fun time doing something they enjoy doing. A fat cosplayer wearing skimpy clothes will not be learning they are 'fat' from a group of sniggering 15 year-olds at an anime con. The sniggering 15 year-olds will not need eye or brain surgery, unless they sniggered at the wrong fat cosplayer.'

Where is the pain? The viewer is not injured, all jokes aside. The cosplayer is almost definately aware of how they appear. Some fat fans want to cosplay, and like to do it. As long as they are legally dressed, the same standard that applies to everybody, what is the problem?

Explain the bad, please?

BTW, the way fms chooses to express his opinion is frequently unacceptable. As a member of this forum (not it's owner), I found this to be one of those times. I also have extremely little little little tolerance for fans telling other fans what they can and cannot do when participating in fandom, based on things like skill, talent, ability, appearance, weight. All aspects of 'fandom' is open and accessible to everybody.
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Post by Pyrite »

For self: doesn't it hurt to squeeze into something tight (for anyone in general)? :lol: (I would have said "Ask the Bee Gees", but that joke's been done to death.)
For others: Since we are talking about perceptions here, just as some people find the idea of male transvestites disturbing, other people might find the sight of fat people in tight clothes disturbing. (And hence, the issue on body image. I'm not saying it's justifiable or right to discriminate against the overweight, just that society's perceptions at this point would be on the negative end of the scale. After all, in the past, both plump people and males crossdressing as females - on stage, right? - were pretty commonplace, accepted, and even favoured.)

The word "bad" was probably a little too vague, so sorry. How about "unhealthy for you" and "not really visually appealing to others"?
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Post by Jae »

Pyrite wrote:For self: doesn't it hurt to squeeze into something tight (for anyone in general)?
Well, sure, but too-tight isn't the same as well fitting but skimpy, and doesn't fall into the 'shouldn't have to see that' catagory...

What you say in the middle, about perceptions, I couldn't disagree with. For whatever mutiple, backwards, regressive, bullshit reasons some people have difficulty with seeing others who they think are ugly, fat, the wrong color, the wrong gender, the wrong ethnicity, ect ect - in some outfit, or even setting or activity, in which the viewer doesn't think such person should be in. There's no universal agreement on these things.
So there's some general concept that men shouldn't dress in drag, but it's acceptable for women more or less.

But then there's this:
Pyrite wrote: The word "bad" was probably a little too vague, so sorry. How about "unhealthy for you" and "not really visually appealing to others"?
Not an improvement. I'm not sure why 'not really visually appealing to others' matters. Someone wants to cosplay as their favorite character, but you're suggesting they shouldn't unless they are going to be 'visually appealing to others'. What that your intent? To suggest that the acceptable purpose for cosplay is to be 'visually appealing to others'?
It's sad when someone dresses up thinking they look really really great, and they don't- but that happens regardless of someone's weight and what they are or aren't wearing. But what about people who want to dress the way they want, regardless of what others think?
If it's legal, it's legal, and the gift of sight is always accompanied with the devastating curse of having to see things you don't want to. Really super awful, I know. :roll:

And about 'unhealthy for you'? That's an implied medical/psychologial judgement being made about someone you don't know based on what they choose to wear at an anime convention. I'm interested in knowing what sort of medical risks a fat person is taking when wearing skimpy clothing. I think smoking is unhealthy for you. There's evidence of that. Someone showing off their extra flesh doesn't cause cancer, either to themselves or others.
Facetiously, a pale fat person running around unprotected from the sun has more skin to asorb rays and develop cancer with, but, we are talking about anime cons here, not beachgoing.

Maybe a fat person who doesn't dress like they are fat doesn't appear to be concerned enough about their weight? Is that what 'unhealthy for you' means?

edit: reading this after I posted it, the sloganizer decided this was an apt time to say "I lost weight with rant" :twisted:
PS edit: I believe in challenging backwards, regressive, bullshit perceptions, if that wasn't clear.
The audience applauded, even though it was not clear what Bush meant.

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