So did Gauron actually love Kashim?

Wild Goose · Post by **Wild Goose** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:40 am

I rewatched Ep. 24. In it, Gauron shouts, "Aishiteru, Kashim!"

Aishiteru is the way of saying"I love you" with romantic connotations. *shudder*

Then again, he may have been messing with Sousuke.

Weltall Elite · Post by **Weltall Elite** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:43 am

Probably. I have no doubt that everything Gauron did with Sousuke was one big mind game to get him where he wanted him.

Wild Goose · Post by **Wild Goose** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:52 am

Weltall Elite wrote:Probably. I have no doubt that everything Gauron did with Sousuke was one big mind game to get him where he wanted him.

It suceeded in the short run as well - remember Sousuke pounding on the deck, shouting, "Who the hell is that? Kashim is dead! You shithead!"?

Stilll, you never know............... *shudder*

Weltall Elite · Post by **Weltall Elite** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:12 am

Interesting. I never heard it translated like that. Both on the dubbed and subtitled versions of my ADV DVD he yells that the way Gauron addressed him was too familiar/friendly.

But your translation puts a VERY different twist on things. Very interesting...

Wild Goose · Post by **Wild Goose** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 3:44 am

Weltall Elite wrote:Interesting. I never heard it translated like that. Both on the dubbed and subtitled versions of my ADV DVD he yells that the way Gauron addressed him was too familiar/friendly.

But your translation puts a VERY different twist on things. Very interesting...

Well, mine's by an independant subbing group. *shrugs* It's fairly accurate, that I can ascertain - they even got the military terminology right.

I've very sure he shouts shithead, because in Japanese, he says "Kuso yaro!" and Kurz says, "Oneesan, he said 'Kuso.'"

Pyrite · Post by **Pyrite** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:40 am

As Negs mentioned once, ADV does make some questionable editing decisions from time to time.

I guess we'll never know for sure if Gauron was really in love/lust/whatever with Sousuke, or if it was just an attempt to screw around with his mind.

Jae wrote:The anime series also confronted the S-G concept very directly, in the Homeland trio of eps. There S is confronted with what was his alternate G-type possibility. The theme of Sousuke having had opposing potentials is strong, and I wonder if the purpose of those eps was to include that theme in the anime at a time when it was uncertian if more would be made. *shrug*

Now that you mention it, I can't really see Gauron as the perfect killer - there's just something about him that strikes me as being wantonly cruel, which I guess would be at odds to the traditional image of the cool professional killer. Zahid/Zaido/what's-his-face was probably closer to the assassin's and mercenary's ideal: no emotions or remorse at having to take even a former comrade's life.

Weltall Elite · Post by **Weltall Elite** » Wed Mar 30, 2005 4:42 am

Well, that's true. Gauron's not cold to it. He had a lust for killing.

Seikai · Post by **Seikai** » Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:01 am

Wow, this topic is pretty old, and it's been a long while since anyone has last commented 0__0. Hahaha, I hope no one minds me posting my two cents XD.

I've recently become pretty obsessed with FMP, and have bought / read / watched all the FMP I could get my hands on

. And I must say, Gauron is a character that really fascinates me. The more I read and hear about him, the more I believe that he isn't so completely one-dimensional (as a lot of people seem to think he is).

Meh, here are some of my thoughts and analysis on the matter:

I believe that Gauron really was in love with Sousuke - at least, it's the closest thing to "love" that Gauron can experience. And I don't think that his supposed last words "I love you Kashim!" were just a joke. I also don't believe that he's only taunting Sousuke when he calls him "darling" and "honey." If you notice, Gauron isn't really the type to joke around about those kinds of things. He likes to disguise the things he says as jokes, but most of the time, he actually sincerely means them. Example: While he was on the airplane, he "joked" with the stewardess that he wanted to throw all the annoying, noisy high schoolers out of the plane. I don't think anyone here can doubt that he actually meant that, and that he was just pretending it was a joke. Same with his "joke" about fixing the pilot from the first novel. He "joked" that the pilot was the one that was "broken" (instead of the plane), and he "fixed" him by shooting him. Again, in his messed up mind, he probably truly felt that he fixed the annoying pilot by killing him. And in another example: In the novels for TSR, he pretty much confesses to Sousuke that he always thought his original personality was "beautiful," and that he really would've liked to have raped him after killing him. He proceeds to laugh like a maniac and say he's just kidding... except immediately after, he goes serious and tells Sousuke that no, really, what he just said was true. Honestly - Gauron tends not to lie about these things. It's probably also the reason why he's so disgusted and bitter with Mithril, which he considers to be a hypocritical, overly self-righteous organization.

Another point I notice people saying is that Gauron wanted Sousuke to turn out the same way that Xia Yu Fang and Yu Lan (the twins he adopted) did. I don't actually think that's quite it. If you notice, Gauron neglected and cared so little for them, sending them to their death just so he could have the pleasure of meeting Sousuke. And if you notice, when Sousuke's eyes became like theirs (due to his being so depressed over Kaname's death), Gauron called him a disgrace that's so filled with contradictions and doubts, he's no longer even worth killing. In other words, Yu Fang and Yu Lan's eyes, in Gauron's mind, were not "beautiful" the way Sousuke's were. What Gauron wanted was not depressed, hopeless eyes that lost the will to live.

Sousuke's eyes (back in the past) were unique - no one Gauron had met had eyes the same as Sousuke's. Which also makes sense why Gauron became so obsessed with him. To Gauron, Sousuke was a saint - someone who managed to achieve an attitude that was impossible for other people to achieve. And no matter how much Gauron wants to convince himself that Sousuke's eyes were similar to his, it was actually not the case. Like what others on the board mentioned, Gauron was too passionate and lustful towards killing. Unlike Sousuke, who had a devil-may-care attitude. As Gauron understood it, Sousuke was the epitome of beauty - something that he himself couldn't even achieve. And so he wanted to preserve Sousuke's personality, going through great pains to see to it that Sousuke reverted back to being the "Assassin Saint Kashim."

Ironically, Gauron actually wanted to take young Sousuke in (the same way he did with the twins). However, Sousuke ended up refusing, resulting in Gauron obsessing over Sousuke being the one that got away. Yet, if you think about it, had Sousuke done what Gauron wanted and went with him... Sousuke would've had the same eyes and turned out the same way that the twins did. And then he wouldn't have been "beautiful." By having Sousuke go with Kalinin and be trained by him, Sousuke actually managed to preserve his "assassin saint" personality for a lot longer (up until the beginning of FMP).

So yeah, I think Gauron had a serious case of lust/worship towards Sousuke. And I fully believe that his love for Sousuke is... not the parental / mentor kind, but very much more of a romantic kind (as "romantic" as Gauron can get... *cough*). I mean, come on! The guy even straight-out tells Sousuke that he wanted to get it on. Seriously? I don't think father figures normally think of doing that kind of stuff to boys they think of as their sons... I hope

.

Post by **Taurec** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:36 pm

Well Gauron is/was a certified psycho killer...
So I'm not sure how you could place any rational thoughts or values in the things he says and does.

You could compare this to Holmes / Moriarty they seemed to "love" and were fascinated with each others mind.
Pretty funny if you consider they too had a duel to the death.

KiLlEr · Post by **KiLlEr** » Tue Sep 01, 2009 7:40 pm

Well Holmes and Moriarty was more of the English gentleman adversarial relationship.

Gauron is more visceral.

My take was that the love was creator/progeny in that Gauron looked at Sousuke as his "creation" - A cold blooded mercenary with no morals, no feelings, body count is just a by product of reaching a goal.

This was how Sousuke was to an extent in Afghanistan.

However, enter Kalinin. He turns Sousuke in the "other" direction by sending him to Guard Chidori.

So, it seems to me that you have Sousuke with two polar-opposite father figures which echo the choice of Sousuke's paths:

- The bloodlusting mercenary who cares not for anything or anyone, including his subordinates.

- The man with a purpose to do good in the world and protect and core for those around him.

This philosophical point is expressed in the dialogs/monologs of Kalinin and Gauron.

This point however is very crucial as the story takes its turn later on. I'm dying to see how it turns out.

Semperai · Post by **Semperai** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:58 pm

My opinion is that I don't think Gauron loved him in the romantic sense. I think he admired Sousuke and that's what type of "love" he had for him.
He admired Sousuke's skills in battle and how he'd take out any opponent.

Gauron is a psycho and I felt bad every time after a fight when Gauron would say something to mess with Sousuke's head.